The 2009 BCS Baseball Tournament

[ShockerFever]

William... I noticed you ignored my question...

If willie's ridiculous idea came to fruition, god forbid, then we'd be in trouble. The BCS schools would then just schedule other BCS schools in the non-con (kinda what they do now anyways) and then play other BCS schools in their conference. The NCAA regionals would basically become what the NCAA basketball tournament was from the No.12 seeds on down - a BCS only tournament.

In nearly every tournament ever performed in any sport, the art of the upset and the 'little guy' is what makes a tournament worth watching. There would never be no Fresno State, no Wichita Sate winning national championships without the little guy from a weak conference. There would be no upsets or no cinderellas. It would be good BCS teams matched up against crappy BCS teams.

Gee william, do you have a spot on the NCAA selection committee?

I'm embarrassed for you and your association with this site.

You apparently think "little" teams like WSU wouldn't qualify under the best 64 method, I wholeheartedly dissagree and am embarrassed for you sport. Being from a small conf. doesn't mean you can't be good and it doesn't mean you wouldn't qualify for the regionals. Hell there are small schools that get at-large bids every year. What have you got against the best 64 teams in the country playing off.

WSU is a major player in college baseball now, but if we had it your way about 30 years ago, they would have never been able to attain what they have now. Seems kinda snobbish and unfair to me.

So since you won't answer it, I'll continue to ask it until you do..

I guess we should just eliminate 2/3 of the Division I conferences huh?

Ok I'm going to go slow for you this time so that you see your question is answered. What I propose is that you have an ncaa committee establish a fair way to rank division 1 teams. The committee looks at the seasons of every team in div. 1 baseball and runs them through their agreed upon criteria. The committee comes up with a final ranking for all of div. 1 baseball and invites the top 64 to the tournament. Then those 64 play until we identify the best team in the country. I want you to notice that conference affilliation has nothing to do with the evaluation criteria or the final rankings, therefore none of the teams in any of the conferences would be eliminated by anything but poor performance.

Ok william, now I'm going to slow down for you and then give you a bit of reality on the side. First of all, there is no "perfect" way of ranking the Top 64 teams. You'll still have exactly what you have now with the only difference being that the bottom 2/3 of Division I conferences playing baseball for no other reason than to play baseball....because let's be real willie, the bottom 20 conferences of D-1 baseball don't get at-larges. They don't get them now and they certainly won't get them in your crackpot of an idea. So basically, 2/3 of Division I baseball wouldn't have a chance to make the postseason from the beginning. The only way the lower major teams have a chance to make the NCAA's is by winning their conference tourneys (i.e. the Valley this year). That is THEIR season. By eliminating this, you just eliminated 2/3 of college baseball from participating in the National Championship and the BCS "squeeze" would really be on. WSU wouldn't have had a chance to play in the NCAAs in your "dream" (or nightmare) scenario.

The little guys get f***ed enough by the NCAA the way the format is run anyway. If things went your way, they would have ZERO chance. If you want to be FAIR, you let EVERYONE at least have a chance.

Do you get it yet or do I need to go 5-paragraph essay on your a$$?

[ShockerFever]

I just saw what KC said. He put it in a much more eloquent way than I did.

Read his post too.



This idea was just about as stupid as billybud coming in here and defending Baylor and Oklahoma State.

[William]

William, the big problem with your arguement is logistics. If it were up to you, the 64 teams in the regionals would most certainly come from southern programs. And any northern programs would most certainly come from BCS conferences, like Louisville, Nebraska and Oregon State for example.

There is not a lot of money placed in baseball for non-BCS programs. So, if you want the best 64 teams to be in the regional, this would mean that teams from non-BCS programs such as Temple or Rhode Island to travel a thousand of miles down south to play BCS teams during the midweek and early portion of the season.

That ain't gonna happen and really, how fair is that. Hell, we can't get Arkansas or Texas to come to Wichita and play us. From a financial, logistical and pratical standpoint, it is just not feasible for non-BCS programs to schedule as tough as the southern BCS programs. So I say the auto bids from these conferences need to stay to make things somewhat equal.

Otherwise, the rich would get richer and the poor would get poorer. This already occurs in football with the good ol' boy system, I just hope it never reaches baseball and basketball.

Earlier I mentioned that in an effort to keep things fair the ncaa could do the non-con scheduling, but your point is taken and there are no easy solutions, but I did a little research and here is what I found, nothing scientific just interesting.

Big 12 3@4 seed regional results

2008 2-2
2007 6-4
2006 6-3
2005 3-4
2004 1-2
2003 1-2

Non bcs 3@4 seed regional results

2008 13-41
2007 11-46

I didn't go any farther, and some of the wins on the bottom are from good baseball conf.s like conf usa these automatic qualifiers aren't really competing at this level and are giving some of thes big conf. 1 seeds a free ride holding their ace for game two. After looking through these results and the rpi of these auto qualifiers I'm thinking that they should have an rpi of at least 80 to get in. The majority of these auto 4 seeds that go 2 and que have rpi of between 100 and 240 its really a joke and is totally unfair to the 2 and 3 seeds who are already on the road to begin with.

[ShockerFever]

What does that have to do with being fair?

Absolutely nothing.



Serious question: Which school do you hold allegiance to? KU or KSU?

[William]

What does that have to do with being fair?

Absolutely nothing.



Serious question: Which school do you hold allegiance to? KU or KSU?

earlier in this thread the argument was over whether or not osu and baylor belonged in front of r.i. and some others, that is why there is a big 12 comparison there Cluseaux. Why don't you let the adults discuss this topic alone there sport.

[ShockerFever]

Your bland sense of humor needs some work.

I think you're just mad because a person that's been on this earth less time than you has owned you in something.

KC figured it out. I figured it out. You have no response to the "fair" questions. You ignore them and instead, get defense and just respond to the KU/KSU remarks.

Too funny.

[Veritas]

We are taking advantage of an automatic bid this year and that is great, but I would rather see both in basketball and baseball, tournaments get-rid of automatic bids alltogether. I want to see the best 64 in the country go at it period. They need to come up with a fair way of determining the top 64 and call it a day.

Coming up with a "fair way" is the crux of the problem William. Currently the inflated RPI of BCS bottom feeding schools have an advantage over non-BCS schools that can't schedule BCS schools. The RPI disparity simply widens. The fulcrum in balancing out the fairness has been the conference tournament and a NCAA tournament automatic bid.

Why do BCS schools even have a tournament? What's the point?

I don't know what the answer is, but I'm afraid it will continue to get worse. As money starts to get bigger, the BCS conferences will do whatever they can to shut out non-BCS schools.

Simply look at the revenue sharing of some of these conferences. Amazing.

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=1200&u_sid=10640273

[shockfan89_]

Big 12 3@4 seed regional results

2008 2-2
2007 6-4
2006 6-3
2005 3-4
2004 1-2
2003 1-2

Non bcs 3@4 seed regional results

2008 13-41
2007 11-46

I didn't go any farther, and some of the wins on the bottom are from good baseball conf.s like conf usa these automatic qualifiers aren't really competing at this level and are giving some of thes big conf. 1 seeds a free ride holding their ace for game two. After looking through these results and the rpi of these auto qualifiers I'm thinking that they should have an rpi of at least 80 to get in. The majority of these auto 4 seeds that go 2 and que have rpi of between 100 and 240 its really a joke and is totally unfair to the 2 and 3 seeds who are already on the road to begin with.

Are you telling me in 2008 there was only 1 Big 12 team that was seeded a 3 or a 4? Only 2 in 2007? These numbers make even more of a case that the warm weather schools are getting too much help! Not only are they getting too many teams in but they are getting seeded higher too!!!

[wichita cat]

It could also be noted that although WSU is a "small player", they have dedicated themselves to becoming a baseball icon. It had nothing to do with NCAA formats. There will always be a financial disparity between institutions that will force a smaller schools hand. Therefore, if a small school wishes to be a force in college baseball, they will have to follow the Shocker mold, and make it happen, rather than cry for a better system to help them along. WSU is far more disadvantaged as a university than many of the schools for whom people are crying foul, yet, year in and year out, here they are. They have adjusted to the system and made the most of the hand they were dealt. The model is in place, smart schools who aspire to baseball power would be wise to follow.

[ShockCity]

If rhode Island wants to compete for championships, they ought to try another Ncaa division.

Apparently so should KSuck, since they are 0-fer in National Championships in their history.

[Ramjet]

WOW!

[William]

We are taking advantage of an automatic bid this year and that is great, but I would rather see both in basketball and baseball, tournaments get-rid of automatic bids alltogether. I want to see the best 64 in the country go at it period. They need to come up with a fair way of determining the top 64 and call it a day.

Coming up with a "fair way" is the crux of the problem William. Currently the inflated RPI of BCS bottom feeding schools have an advantage over non-BCS schools that can't schedule BCS schools. The RPI disparity simply widens. The fulcrum in balancing out the fairness has been the conference tournament and a NCAA tournament automatic bid.

Why do BCS schools even have a tournament? What's the point?

I don't know what the answer is, but I'm afraid it will continue to get worse. As money starts to get bigger, the BCS conferences will do whatever they can to shut out non-BCS schools.

Simply look at the revenue sharing of some of these conferences. Amazing.


http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_pag...u_sid=10640273

Several people have brought up scheduling as a big problem for non-bcs teams, what would you think of having all non-con scheduling done by the NCAA? They could force the big guys to go on the road and play teams that they wouldn't normally play.

[CharlieHog]

Several people have brought up scheduling as a big problem for non-bcs teams, what would you think of having all non-con scheduling done by the NCAA? They could force the big guys to go on the road and play teams that they wouldn't normally play.

I don't get why Wichita State fans complain about this. You guys always play a lot of home games and you get quality teams such as TCU, Pepperdine, Long Beach, etc to come to your home field.

Yes some schools have advantages when it comes to baseball. Some have better weather, some have better fields, some have more money. Wichita State has advantages over every school in the MVC. WSU has a nice field, I'm guessing the top paid coaching staff in the conference, a good amount of home-grown talent, and soon, an indoor practice facility. And, most years, you get to host the conference tournament on your home field.

Is that really fair?

[Veritas]

It could also be noted that although WSU is a "small player", they have dedicated themselves to becoming a baseball icon. It had nothing to do with NCAA formats. There will always be a financial disparity between institutions that will force a smaller schools hand. Therefore, if a small school wishes to be a force in college baseball, they will have to follow the Shocker mold, and make it happen, rather than cry for a better system to help them along. WSU is far more disadvantaged as a university than many of the schools for whom people are crying foul, yet, year in and year out, here they are. They have adjusted to the system and made the most of the hand they were dealt. The model is in place, smart schools who aspire to baseball power would be wise to follow.

Wichita Cat, unfortunately the model is changing. Shocker Nation will be required to invest more heavily into Shocker baseball unlike anything that has been done in the past.
It is becoming more and more like a "Winthrop" scenario where a mid-major MUST win the conference tournament or they will shut out. OU has already closed the door on scheduling the Shockers. They have already started playing the RPI game.

Interesting read about some of the issues in the Springfield newspaper:

http://www.news-leader.com/article/20090527/SPORTS0401/905270477/NCAA+selections+unkind+to+mid-majors

[CharlieHog]

Interesting read about some of the issues in the Springfield newspaper:
http://www.news-leader.com/article/2...+to+mid-majors

Here's what I don't get.

- We really don't want you -- if we could get away with it, all NCAA Tournament teams would be from major conferences.


WHY though? It doesn't make any sense. Oklahoma State is going to Clemson. They might take a few fans but not enough to make any difference. Baylor is going to LSU, which doesn't need any help selling all their tickets. The games aren't televised for the most part. What does the NCAA get out of this conspiracy against mid-majors.?

In basketball at least you can argue that major schools have more fans to watch the games on TV so they get more money.