For, Against, or Personal?

[William]

What I find impressive about Genes career here is not :

Win totals
40-win seasons
conference titles
regional appearances

all of these can be argued to be the beneficiary of a weak conference

What does impress me about his career is this:

CWS championship
CWS appearances
players that have played in the big-leagues
building the program and facilities from scratch

There is no arguing these accomplishments, they are truly what makes his legend.

[ShockerFever]

First well thought out post you've made here in a while william.

I appreciate it.

[ShockerFever]

You cant compare basketball and baseball. I mean how many universities actually care to compete in baseball? Not many. Seriously, are you all arguing that a CWS is the same as a basketball final 4? Thats a joke.

I've mostly stayed out of this debate, but this statement is dumbest thing I've ever read on ShockerNet. Because you "like" basketball more doesn't mean it is better.

A few simple numbers:
- 343 institutions participate in D1 Basketball
- 302 institutions participate in D1 Baseball
- 120 institutions participate in FBS D-1A Football
- 125 institutions participate in D1-AA Football

Those number don't lie. "Not many" outnumbers both of the top two classes of D1 football > 2:1. and is only about 12% or so less than basketball.

Have you ever been to a big-time baseball regional or super regional or the CWS in Omaha? The CWS is a one-of-a-kind event that must be experienced to be appreciated. It's no joke.

Perhaps you should be back to posting on www.kansas.com.

--'85.

Agreed 100%

No one is saying the CWS = Final Four in terms of media coverage, popularity, etc.

But in terms of competition levels, they are equally the same. That's why it is a BIG deal in the BASEBALL world to make the CWS.. even the super regionals to some extent.

[Shocker85]

What I find impressive about Genes career here is not :

Win totals
40-win seasons
conference titles
regional appearances

all of these can be argued to be the beneficiary of a weak conference

What does impress me about his career is this:

CWS championship
CWS appearances
players that have played in the big-leagues
building the program and facilities from scratch

There is no arguing these accomplishments, they are truly what makes his legend.

Gene's drive to establish WSU as an NCAA baseball power is/was in impressive thing. Most, if not all, of the accomplishments above stem from his tireless drive to make the program and individuals within it the best citizens and athletes they can be.

Gene's committment to running the program in HIS own way is/was impressive.

The quality of the character of the men he has brought into the program and dedication to "doing it the right way" is impressive.

The WSU baseball program's successes have served as inspiration and as a model for programs and facilities improvements in this region. That's impressive.

Doing all this at within one program over 32 seasons is impressive.

--'85.

[shockkansas]

I've mostly stayed out of this debate, but this statement is dumbest thing I've ever read on ShockerNet. Because you "like" basketball more doesn't mean it is better.

A few simple numbers:
- 343 institutions participate in D1 Basketball
- 302 institutions participate in D1 Baseball
- 120 institutions participate in FBS D-1A Football
- 125 institutions participate in D1-AA Football

Those number don't lie. "Not many" outnumbers both of the top two classes of D1 football > 2:1. and is only about 12% or so less than basketball.

Have you ever been to a big-time baseball regional or super regional or the CWS in Omaha? The CWS is a one-of-a-kind event that must be experienced to be appreciated. It's no joke.

Perhaps you should be back to posting on www.kansas.com.

--'85.

Wow, dumbest statement in the history of Shockernet?!?! I'm going to take that as a compliment. Do I get a plaque or certificate or anything?

However, note that I used "care to compete", you used "participate". Northern Iowa "participates" (for now) but would you say they "care" or "compete"? How many schools field a team but dont care if they are competitive? They don't care because its not a revenue sport and hardly anyone is paying attention. There may be as many "participants", but not close to as many "competitors" as basketball.

Also, the format of baseball is more forgiving. The best team will generally win a series, but single elimination will require some luck and bringing your best game every time.

Maybe I'm wrong, and the dumbest poster on here. But one thing is certain, the prestige of a CWS is not the same as a final 4.

[ShockerFever]

Maybe I'm wrong, and the dumbest poster on here.

Thank you. Agreed.

But one thing is certain, the prestige of a CWS is not the same as a final 4.

Speaking of stupid... no one is saying they are on the same 'prestige level' in the grand scheme of all college sports. Are you really that shallow?

[shockkansas]

I find this whole thing amusing. Any basketball coach who took WSU to back-to-back Sweet 16s would be the biggest hero. I find it amazing people have such short memories with baseball.

My bad, I misunderstood this post to mean that a baseball coach should be afforded the same "prestige" as a basketball coach.

[Shocker85]

Wow, dumbest statement in the history of Shockernet?!?! I'm going to take that as a compliment. Do I get a plaque or certificate or anything?

However, note that I used "care to compete", you used "participate". Northern Iowa "participates" (for now) but would you say they "care" or "compete"? How many schools field a team but dont care if they are competitive? They don't care because its not a revenue sport and hardly anyone is paying attention. There may be as many "participants", but not close to as many "competitors" as basketball.

Maybe I'm wrong, and the dumbest poster on here. But one thing is certain, the prestige of a CWS is not the same as a final 4.

:yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:
The hits just keep on a comin'

So schools sponsor a team in baseball to "participate" but not "compete"????

So, go tell the players from UNI, Bradley, etc. they're not supposed to compete.

Priceless!

--'85.

[shockkansas]

Hey, I don't need to tell them anything. Look at the facilities, look at coaches salaries, better yet, look at the records/history. Do they compete, or just participate?

Runner up for dumbest statement on Shockernet:

I wonder if a split schedule would ever be considered? Play 20 games in October and November, then the rest of the schedule in March, April, and May. That's pretty wierd, too, I guess.

--'85.

[ShockerFever]

I love it.

You can't complain about BCS schools having better facilities, higher-paid coaches, etc., etc. in basketball, but when WSU does it in baseball, it's pointed out to no end.



I smell another troll...

Aggie Tech U. must be a boring place to be these days..

[shock10]

I like baseball better than basketball so the CWS is better to me than the final 4.

[1972Shocker]

I would not really be crushed if mean Gene decided he has had enough and is ready to hang 'em up.

However, I do think Gene has earned the right for now to make that decision on his own terms. There is no question in my mind that his accomplishments at WSU are very impressive.

One bad year after having his team decimated by the draft and injuries is not enough in my mind to take the privilege of determining his own fate away from Gene.

Now a couple of more season like this and Gene might want to take a long hard look inward.

I think Gene still has plenty of competitive fire in his belly. Whether or not he is a good fit with the current generation of athletes I don't know.

Next year should give us a pretty good feel for whether or not Gene can still bring home the bacon.

[shockfan89_]

I am not here to say Gene is outstanding and amazing and can't be faulted or questioned, but I would like to know why people think we will have a better chance at being successful without him?

Who do you think we are going to get to replace him?

1. I doubt there is a long line of big name coaches that want to come to Wichita and take over after Gene? This would kind of be like following Tom Osbourne in football. We have a long way to fall and it would take quite an amazing effort to surpass what Gene has done.

2. Climate - Everyone that knows anything about baseball knows it is harder to recruit, schedule good teams to come play, and to win at a non-warm weather school.

3. Budget - Very small compared to other big time programs. I think when Gene went to OU his operating budget was going to be nearly 3 times what WSU's budget is. A huge reason for the success at WSU has been Gene's ability to raise money on his own. The Athletic Dept doesn't spend much on baseball but Gene goes out and raises a ton of money himself. Will our next coach do that?

4. Conference - Need I say more? Who is up for 12 hour bus rides to play in crappy parks and have your RPI ruined?

5. No football - Another big recruiting issue. Wouldn't it be nice to have 85 football players on full scholarships that want to get out of spring practice? Get two or three of them that can mash the ball and you never need to worry about 1B or DH again.

Also I have news for you. Brent is not going to be the head coach and probably shouldn't be. That is not a slam on BK. He is great at what he does but I don't think he even wants to be a head coach. We are all assuming that if Gene retires BK will stay here. Not sure that is a good assumption? We all know BK was probably the most excited to move on to OU a several years back.

All I know is the games where Gene has been hospitalized or missed for various reasons over the years, we have lost a lot of them and I believe we had some really good teams those years. Not saying he is perfect, but we have not displayed any ability to win without the man either...

[shockkansas]

Last 2 posts = ROCK SOLID, especially the climate part.

Now, Shock10, until you have CBS money, no on really cares what you think.

[1972Shocker]

Kevin Hooper, who eventually could be a candidate to replace Gene (although I have no idea if he would have an interest in that), was on Sports Daily this morning.

FWIW, his praise and admiration of Gene, JT and Brent was very enthusiastic to say the least.

Then again Hoop would no doubt be considered a throw back, dirt bag kind of player.