For, Against, or Personal?

[SekShocker]

Because Wichita State is the only school that schedules D2 and NAIA schools. Great points!!!!!!!!!!!

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[vbird53]

I agree with the '93 and '96 appearances and that's fine but that's 13 years ago and how much longer before another CWS appearance. It will not be in Gene or JT's tenure and this program will continue its downward spiral.

We were 1 win away last year, and two wins away the year before.

Not to mention, the talent level will again increase over the next two years, and I'd bet that another shot at Omaha is in Gene's tank before he's done.

Another thing: Gene will see through the completion of the newest phase to HIS ballpark. I can guarantee you that.

Now on to a better topic: Is there any chance at all that we can sneak up on some folks and win the Valley Tourney? Wouldn't that just be awesome?

[SekShocker]

Are these kids just weak minded or not tough, to say that Gene has ripped the heart out of this team, to me shows that they must not of had much to begin with, over the years we have seen and everyone knows Gene's temperment and how he is towards players. Hell him and Wedge used to go at it pretty good, buy Wedge had balls and pride and became a winner and pushed other's to become winners. My major problem with this year's team is that they are not getting any better or smarter, and I don't put all that on the coaches. I mean after this many games, they should know when to freaking cover a base, what base to throw too, maybe not take fastballs down the middle to get behind in the count so you have to swing at crap in the dirt. How to hit the ball on the ground on a hit and run, and maybe just maybe that when the winning run is standing on 3rd with less than two outs how to hit the ball in the air, when they seem to do it on a regular basis with nobody on or when a groundball is needed. People rip the coaches for not bunting runners over, but has anyone seen how poorly this team even attempts to bunt people over, they act like they don't want to do it.

I don't know, just ready for next year and hopefully better times, but for some I know, no matter what #10 does it will never be good enough and everything will always be his fault. I guess that is the nature of the beast.

[SpanglerFan316]

This thread is so silly (& dumb) that it's funny.

Who would want to play for Gene? Well, Conor Gillaspie, Andy Dirks, Rob Musgrave, Damon Sublett, Matt Brown, Aaron Shafer, etc.

[Trigger]

Who would want to play for Gene ...

Kids are or WERE in the shock in awe factor of playing for Wichita State (years ago) and it's not like Gene is chewing their cans during recruiting visits. On top of that if Kemnitz is recruiting a kid who wouldn't want to come here. He's not going to say Gene and JT are ****. You cannot baby kids but you will have to build them up and Gene has destroyed some incredibly talented players. I agree you either have to step it up or accept what he dishes out but some players want to play college ball, learn the game without being demoralized constantly.

Another thing and Turgeon even used to say this. When a coach says he doesn't have the answer or any answers then they need to leave or be dismissed. I know this is part of Gene's little games he plays but do you really want a coach with no answers to lead the way? How much faith can you have from your players if the leader doesn't know how to get it turned around?

[ShockerFever]

Part of the reason that I want Gene gone sooner than later is the fact that he is so negative towards his players. I mean who wants to play for a coach that says "I have given up on this team, I don't know what to do with them anymore." Any coach that says that ought to be fired on the spot. I coached basketball for several years, and I had some pretty bad teams, even teams that didn't win a game, and I never, ever gave up on my teams or my players. They always played hard, just didn't have much talent to work with. This team this year has some talent, but absolutely no heart. I talked to Tyler Grimes the other day, and he basically said that the consencus among the players is that #10 has ripped the heart out of this team.

Everybody always talks about Gene's wins and winning percentage, and I'm sorry, but that's an absolute joke. If you take away all his wins against teams like Friends and Tabor and Butler County, he would have about 200 wins less than what he does. I've talked to several people that agree with me that Gene is not as good a coach as his record shows.

The one thing I can say about Gene is that he did bring back WSU baseball, and he has had limited success in getting this team to Omaha. You can't deny all the 40 win seasons this team has had. However, how many of those 40 win seasons would not have been without 10 wins against NAIA teams. Overall, I'm iffy on whether or not I want Gene Stephenson to be the coach at WSU next year. Part of me wishes he would have just stayed at Oklahoma. I think there are better coaches out there that WSU could get, but I don't think Gene will go anywhere until he retires, solely because of his "success and winning percentage."

I had never thought about the all the wins against the smaller schools. That is a good point you bring up.

And because of this, the national championship and all of the CWS appearances are now more insignificant... :roll:

Now let's go back and count how many Top 25 wins the coach has to even the playing field.

[rrshock]

Who would want to play for Gene ...

Kids are or WERE in the shock in awe factor of playing for Wichita State (years ago) and it's not like Gene is chewing their cans during recruiting visits. On top of that if Kemnitz is recruiting a kid who wouldn't want to come here. He's not going to say Gene and JT are ****. You cannot baby kids but you will have to build them up and Gene has destroyed some incredibly talented players. I agree you either have to step it up or accept what he dishes out but some players want to play college ball, learn the game without being demoralized constantly.

Another thing and Turgeon even used to say this. When a coach says he doesn't have the answer or any answers then they need to leave or be dismissed. I know this is part of Gene's little games he plays but do you really want a coach with no answers to lead the way? How much faith can you have from your players if the leader doesn't know how to get it turned around?

Turgeon did do that and caught an awful lot of flack from people on here. I think it was even from some of the people that are really defending Gene right now.

It all comes down to kids are different than they were 10 years ago. Yes they should learn from their mistakes, but if they do truly feel demoralized by the coaching staff, they aren't going to change. Mind games only work so far and then they become a truly negative factor. Especially when they are getting called out in the media. It's one thing to do it behind closed doors, but Gene has been doing it for the TV cameras for a month or so now.

The coaching staff also has to realize that kids aren't like they used to be too. Maybe an adaptation of coaching tactics or styles could do wonders for these kids. But if your coaches are dead set in their ways and refuse to change, it isn't going to get any better. These kids will either end up leaving and then WSU will be left in a worse scenario than they are now. The team will be even younger next season if there are alot of departures.

It all comes down to everyone needs to change. The players have to realize that they need to adapt. The coaches need to realize that too, but I don't see that happening with this staff.

[shockerfanmas]

oh i love it when people take comments and turn them into something they aren't. nobody is saying that Gene and WSU aren't deserving of their national championship and cws apperances. Obviously those were special squads who had the talent. Some of us are saying that everybody seems to think Gene is the best coach ever because he's won over 900 games or whatever. And that is overinflated, because I guarantee you from when he started this baseball program 30 years ago, he probably has 200 or 300 wins against NAIA and D2 schools. And I'm sorry, but I don't know of any other school that plays against non D-1 competition as much as WSU does. Gene only cared about wins when he started. Now obviously in the last few years things have changed, and he doesn't schedule teams like Friends or Tabor nearly as much. But I've heard stories about how back in the days, half of WSU's schedule was against Friends or Tabor or Kansas Wesleyan. That is a joke. You can criticize me all you want, but Gene's record is not nearly as good as it looks.

[rrshock]

And because of this, the national championship and all of the CWS appearances are now more insignificant... :roll:

Now let's go back and count how many Top 25 wins the coach has to even the playing field.

I'm not saying the CWS appearances and NC are insignificant. What I did agree with is that alot of that record number of wins he has are against teams that don't even count in your win total when it comes down to the NCAA tourney.

He might have Top 25 wins. Most coach that has been around for a while has lots of them. The question that should be asked is how many wins against Top 25 teams have they had lately? And remember that WSU was ranked in the Top 25 every week for the 2006-07 and 2007-08 seasons.

They're 2-9 so far this year. And more than likely will be 2-10 after tonight.

They were 0-6 last year in the regular season and 4-8 overall against ranked opponents. OSU was 3 of those wins in the regionals.

They were 8-10 against the ranked team in 2006-07 counting post season.

I think that adds up to 10-25 the past three years.

[shockerfanmas]

And as far as kids not being as tough as they used to be, I can agree with that 100%. Kids don't take criticism as well as they used to, and they don't like it when a coach gets in their face and tells them what they need to change. The easy way out is to give up and transfer. Nobody is saying this is all the fault of the coaching staff, yes, at this point in the season, you would expect your players to know how to hit, catch, throw, cover a bag, bunt, and all that good stuff. But for Gene to say that he has given up on his team and that he no longer has any answer is bogus and a cop-out. If a coach doesn't have an answer for how to make his team better, then he is in the wrong profession. It's no secret that Gene goes over the top in his negativity towards his team. Berating your players is not the answer, and never will be. Somebody said that no matter what Gene does, some of us fans will never be happy. Well I see it like this, while that may be true, it is also true that no matter what Gene's players do, he will never be happy. He will always find the negatives instead of the positives. Times have changed since his national championship 20 years ago, and he needs to step back and realize this. This is the sole reason why I think Gene is not the right man for the job at Wichita State anymore. He has lost a lot as a coach, and as a person in general, I know of very few people that like him. He built this program back up and he will always get credit for that, now I think he needs to realize that he is not the same coach, and he needs to step down and hand the reigns over to somebody that can rebuild WSU into the powerhouse it was in the 80's and 90's.

[WuDrWu]

oh i love it when people take comments and turn them into something they aren't. nobody is saying that Gene and WSU aren't deserving of their national championship and cws apperances. Obviously those were special squads who had the talent. Some of us are saying that everybody seems to think Gene is the best coach ever because he's won over 900 games or whatever. And that is overinflated, because I guarantee you from when he started this baseball program 30 years ago, he probably has 200 or 300 wins against NAIA and D2 schools. And I'm sorry, but I don't know of any other school that plays against non D-1 competition as much as WSU does. Gene only cared about wins when he started. Now obviously in the last few years things have changed, and he doesn't schedule teams like Friends or Tabor nearly as much. But I've heard stories about how back in the days, half of WSU's schedule was against Friends or Tabor or Kansas Wesleyan. That is a joke. You can criticize me all you want, but Gene's record is not nearly as good as it looks.

Yeah, what he said. Because when you do something every year for 30 years in a row you are obviously doing it with smoke and mirrors.

I am about to delete my account here I'm so fed up.

[SekShocker]

My point is, is that the coaches can't want it more thant he players. And from what I see the coaches want it more than the players do right now. I heard Craig Steven say that about the basketball team a few times during the 07-08 season, that it seemed like Coach Marshall wanted it more than the players and that he seemed to take the losses harder. I kind of see that now with this year's baseball team. They seem to not have a whole lot of fight to them and fall asleep quite a bit. The Saturday Indiana State game is a prime example of them just kind of checking out of the game. I probably defend Gene to a fault, just because I have so much respect for what he has built and what he has done for the university I love, so I want to see him stay as long as he wants or as long as I think he can still bring something to the program, and totally 100% believe that he can still takes back to Omaha, and see this season as "just one of those years", and we will be back in regionals very soon and will be back in them for an extended period.

[BostonWu]

And I'm sorry, but I don't know of any other school that plays against non D-1 competition as much as WSU does....But I've heard stories about how back in the days, half of WSU's schedule was against Friends or Tabor or Kansas Wesleyan.

I see you've done your homework. You present a real compelling argument. :lol:

So what season was half the schedule filled with KCAC teams?

[ShockerFever]

oh i love it when people take comments and turn them into something they aren't. nobody is saying that Gene and WSU aren't deserving of their national championship and cws apperances. Obviously those were special squads who had the talent. Some of us are saying that everybody seems to think Gene is the best coach ever because he's won over 900 games or whatever. And that is overinflated, because I guarantee you from when he started this baseball program 30 years ago, he probably has 200 or 300 wins against NAIA and D2 schools. And I'm sorry, but I don't know of any other school that plays against non D-1 competition as much as WSU does. Gene only cared about wins when he started. Now obviously in the last few years things have changed, and he doesn't schedule teams like Friends or Tabor nearly as much. But I've heard stories about how back in the days, half of WSU's schedule was against Friends or Tabor or Kansas Wesleyan. That is a joke. You can criticize me all you want, but Gene's record is not nearly as good as it looks.

I don't think you follow the sport close enough to even be worthy of commenting about it.

You know what I love? People basing things on 'stories they heard'.

I"m sure no other team in college baseball or no other coach for that matter has ever played a non-D1 team. And maybe I'm just dumb and don't have the intellectual insight as you do, but I'm guessing getting good teams to play you was pretty hard to come by when you starting up a program FROM SCRATCH.

You never cease to amaze me.

[shockerfanmas]

lol, oh i love it how people get all riled up when someone says something against our beloved coach Gene Stephenson. I'm sorry that people have different opinions when it comes to the man, and that some people are just so far up his arse that they refuse to see anything negative about the guy. Yes, the man has done great things for WSU baseball, but his record is still overinflated, and he's still not the king like some of you think he is. I'm saying things that are not that big of a secret.. that he got a lot of wins against non division 1 teams, and that he is Mr. negative these days when it comes to his players. Defend the guy all you want, and I know some of you will. But he has his flaws, just like everybody else does. We all know that he isn't going anywhere until he's ready to, and we can agree to disagree about whether he still deserves to be here or not. I personally think it's time for a change, and I'm sorry if that makes me a bad guy. I think this team has a lot of talent, and for whatever reason, they have no heart. Is that because Gene has ripped it out of them? Because they weren't tough to begin with? Who knows? But as a former coach, when I hear a coach say that he doesn't have anymore answers and that he's giving up on his team, that makes me question whether or not the guy still has it. I'm done with this subject, I'm not gonna get into petty argument with people that have a hard-on for the guy and don't understand where I'm comin from.