Fire Todd Butler

[ShockTalk]

Top 3? A 3rd place finish in a crap league in year 4 is now acceptable?

Who gives a crap if it's an improvement? It's 3rd place in a crap league in year 4.

Stephenson "backed into a regional appearance" but we're good with finishing 3rd in the league under the new coach. The crap people are buying into is unbelievable. If 3rd place was OK, why in the hell did we ever make a change to begin with? At least the old guy had done something somewhere along the line.

We are in agreement on this subject @Cdizzle:. He needs a 1st or 2nd in league play and a regional appearance by winning the Valley tournament or an at-large bid.

[OregonShocker]

http://newsok.com/article/3373378

It's hard to read this and not feel that FHCGS had given up on making WSU prominent again. He seems resigned to mediocracy.

[Aargh]

147-144+21-37= 168 - 181

Careful with that. That looks an awfully lot like Common Core math!

[WSUwatcher]

And yet there were those super regionals, Oregon...

[pogo]

Top 3? A 3rd place finish in a crap league in year 4 is now acceptable?

So is going undefeated in a crap league acceptable to you? Just wondering. Last I saw DBU wasn't too bad so that means by your lofty expectations we should waltz into the ncaa with an umblemished conference record right?

[pogo]

Who gives a crap if it's an improvement? It's 3rd place in a crap league in year 4.

Stephenson "backed into a regional appearance" but we're good with finishing 3rd in the league under the new coach. The crap people are buying into is unbelievable. If 3rd place was OK, why in the hell did we ever make a change to begin with? At least the old guy had done something somewhere along the line.

Obviously you were perfectly happy with a coach with an ego that blinded him to the discontent of the state of the program and still felt he was too big to be let go even when the writing was on the wall. Yes it was time for him to go and he was the one to choose to go out the way he did. Make no mistake about it he was going and he chose to go the way he did. His options weren't what he believed he was entitled to but that was discussed ad nauseam 3 years ago. I do like the way you clling to the past glory of GS. I give a crap about improvement but apparently you were always able to do what ever you do perfectly from day one. And did not have to deal with your career hanging on the performance of a bunch of 18 to 20 year olds. But now we know you and I are diametrically opposed on the subject so good luck to you.

[Cdizzle]

So is going undefeated in a crap league acceptable to you? Just wondering. Last I saw DBU wasn't too bad so that means by your lofty expectations we should waltz into the ncaa with an umblemished conference record right?

Yes that would be very acceptable. But then I never said that. Being an at-large team and finishing 2nd to another at-large team is one thing. The goal being 3rd and praying for a tourney run is another. Since when is finishing higher than 3rd in the MVC baseball "lofty expectations."

I do like the way you clling to the past glory of GS.

It's what he was graded against. If he was graded against it, I see no reason the current staff shouldn't be.

I give a crap about improvement but apparently you were always able to do what ever you do perfectly from day one. And did not have to deal with your career hanging on the performance of a bunch of 18 to 20 year olds.

This isn't day 1. This was year 3. And year 6 as a head coach. The results are what they are....terrible. We're not comparing my performance. I'm not a college baseball coach, nor do I pull down a college baseball coach's salary. The age thing, while true, is not a compelling argument. That playing field is level across the profession. Everyone has to deal with it. Some make it work, others fail.

[1972Shocker]

I think what we are seeing with HCTB is the Peter Principle in action. To paraphrase: Coaches/Managers rise to the level of their incompetence. Some people are outstanding assistant coaches but that is their ceiling. They just don't have the goods to take that next step. That doesn't make them a bad person, it just reveals their limits. Perhaps HCTB will show that he can, in fact, make that leap but so far his career results would indicate that his ceiling is to be an assistant where his strengths are of value.

I think the same think came in to play with Eric Sexton. He had his strengths and abilities. However, overall he was simply in over is head as the WSU AD.

Some folks can learn and adapt and grow into a position that maybe they were not quite ready for when hired. Others simply are in over their heads. Others are just natural leaders, motivators and innovators. Making good hires is a much an art as a science IMHO. Everybody has a few swings and misses. The problem in Coach Butler's case is that not only may he have exceeded his Peter Point but he was given the keys to the Kingdom with the sweet heart contract he was given.

Not sure that Shocker Baseball is at rock bottom at this point but, if not, we don't have much further to fall to hit it. Right now the road back to some semblance of a good baseball program seems to be a long and winding one.

At what point will HCTB's lack of success, the empty Eck Stadium and the negative publicity among the media and the fans start to negatively impact recruiting, assuming that is not happening already? Would love to hear Brent's honest take on that but he appears to be in Speak No Evil mode. You get into these downward spirals that feed off of themselves and it gets hard to put on the brakes let alone climb back to the top.

I wish HCTB luck in finding the answers but it is very difficult to have any confidence that he can find the answers.

[OregonShocker]

Not sure that Shocker Baseball is at rock bottom at this point but, if not, we don't have much further to fall to hit it. .

Good Lord! I HOPE we are! It nauseates me to think it could fall FARTHER!

[1972Shocker]

Good Lord! I HOPE we are! It nauseates me to think it could fall FARTHER!

The key will be to put together an improved pitching staff next year. We might win a few more games if HCTB decides to ease up the non-conference schedule but that is of little consolation.

We could easily fall further if the storm clouds surrounding the program damages HCTB's ability to recruit effectively.

1st thing to keep an eye on will be if we have any defections among the 10 pitchers in the incoming recruiting staff as a result of Brent's departure.

Yes, it is nauseating to think we could fall further, but that is not out of the realm of possibility. So I am with you in HOPING we have hit bottom.

[Ricardo del Rio]

@MBB123 fire for effect!

Just in case someone has a need to know.

Definition: Fire which is delivered after the mean point of impact or burst is within the desired distance of the target or adjusting/ranging point.

[shockmonster]

I agree with those who are giving it to CTB. We aren't where we should be at this point and it appears that coaching baseball IQ, allowing Brent to handle pitchers, etc. are more of the problem than recruiting. However, whoever is thinking that the last 5 years under CGS in a KRAPPY MVC (the MVC is better the past few years with DBU, and MSU ) was good enough are just as crazy. But now, we need to hire Hooper and move on.

[1972Shocker]

But now, we need to hire Hooper and move on.

While that may be what we NEED to do, it appears to be clear that HCTB will be here for AT LEAST one more year.

[shockmonster]

While that may be what we NEED to do, it appears to be clear that HCTB will be here for AT LEAST one more year.

You are obviously correct.

[Speed]

It's just embarrassing. A decent man would have enough pride to understand his failure
WSU baseball was built from the ground up. This loser was given great tradition, a winning program, a great stadium & a practice facility that should allow him to overcome the doldrums of winter. He was even provided Kemnitz & he screwed that up. And his checks are probably direct deposited so he can avoid the embarrassment of cashing them for his utter futility.