Fire Todd Butler

[shockfan89_]

I don't know what this means, but something interesting I noticed is that each of our conference series was a 2-1 margin. We didn't sweep anyone but didn't get swept either. I am not claimining that means anything...just found it interesting.

That is interesting. Although we won 2 of the first 3 series and then lost 4 straight to finish the season. I didn't realize we only won 2 of the 7 weekend series'. I thought this was a positive at first, but like you stated, now I'm not sure what it means? Let's just leave it as interesting...

[ShockerFever]

These kids have obviously made strides hitting the ball. I am impressed with how the team (especially the Fr) has been hitting since MVC play started. Hitting! That’s one-third of the game.

The problem is that hitting is probably the least important of the three elements in baseball. I am sure many would argue that, but you can look at our results the past few months when our hitting was very good and the results are not much different than when our hitting was suspect.

In a recent TV broadcast Mark Ewing commented that WSU has a good fielding percentage. Shane Dennis quickly corrected him and said fielding percentage is like a bikini, it shows you some, but not everything. Shane went on to say there are a lot of balls this team just doesn’t get to that past Shocker teams would have gotten to, and most times, made the play.

I’m not even going to start on pitching.

So here are the facts of our strides:
- Overall record of 78-96 (.448 winning pct) under HCTB and has gotten worse every year.
- Road record is pathetic under HCTB and has gotten worse every year (total of 19-40 for a .322 winning pct). Thank goodness we play 2/3 of our games at home or this could be a real dumpster fire.
- MVC record has gotten worse every year even though the conference has gotten weaker (2014 13-8, 2015 10-11, 2016 9-12)
- MVC finish has gotten worse every year (2014 - 4th, 2015 - 4th, 2016 - 6th) prior to 2014 WSU had only finished lower than 3rd one time (1984) and only finished 3rd three times.
- Finished 1 ½ games out of LAST place in the 10th ranked conference with an RPI of 173 (only ISU Red has a lower RPI and they beat us 2 out of 3).
- We only have a winning record against RPI teams of 201+ (4-3).
- Haven’t won more than 2 games in a row in a 56 game season.
- Haven’t had a week where we won more games than we lost.
- Losing streaks of six games and five games (twice).

Like I have said before if we have a great incoming group of pitchers next year, I could start to get excited. But three years into this staff we have shown little ability to recruit pitchers that are effective at this level. If it takes two years or longer (more likely) most of these hitters will be gone or getting ready to leave.

Another concern is we appear to be developing a trend of playing better the last third of the season. While that is great for trying to win the tournament, it’s not really a good trend unless you carry over the success from the previous season (which we haven’t shown we can do).

But our hitting has shown good strides…

Note: If we win the MVC tournament this week, the above is null and void and I will post that I knew we could do it!!!

Can you please print out all of these bullets, put it in an envelope, and send it to the athletic department? They need all the help they can get at evaluating things.

I will disagree on your last point. A fluky run in the Valley tournament will not justify all of the levels of futility that have been reached during the season. We shouldn't be proud and receptive of being an Evansville. Period.

The 56 game season has said all that needs to be said.

[KansasShocker]

These kids have obviously made strides hitting the ball. I am impressed with how the team (especially the Fr) has been hitting since MVC play started. Hitting! That’s one-third of the game.

The problem is that hitting is probably the least important of the three elements in baseball. I am sure many would argue that, but you can look at our results the past few months when our hitting was very good and the results are not much different than when our hitting was suspect.

In a recent TV broadcast Mark Ewing commented that WSU has a good fielding percentage. Shane Dennis quickly corrected him and said fielding percentage is like a bikini, it shows you some, but not everything. Shane went on to say there are a lot of balls this team just doesn’t get to that past Shocker teams would have gotten to, and most times, made the play.

I’m not even going to start on pitching.

So here are the facts of our strides:
- Overall record of 78-96 (.448 winning pct) under HCTB and has gotten worse every year.
- Road record is pathetic under HCTB and has gotten worse every year (total of 19-40 for a .322 winning pct). Thank goodness we play 2/3 of our games at home or this could be a real dumpster fire.
- MVC record has gotten worse every year even though the conference has gotten weaker (2014 13-8, 2015 10-11, 2016 9-12)
- MVC finish has gotten worse every year (2014 - 4th, 2015 - 4th, 2016 - 6th) prior to 2014 WSU had only finished lower than 3rd one time (1984) and only finished 3rd three times.
- Finished 1 ½ games out of LAST place in the 10th ranked conference with an RPI of 173 (only ISU Red has a lower RPI and they beat us 2 out of 3).
- We only have a winning record against RPI teams of 201+ (4-3).
- Haven’t won more than 2 games in a row in a 56 game season.
- Haven’t had a week where we won more games than we lost.
- Losing streaks of six games and five games (twice).

Like I have said before if we have a great incoming group of pitchers next year, I could start to get excited. But three years into this staff we have shown little ability to recruit pitchers that are effective at this level. If it takes two years or longer (more likely) most of these hitters will be gone or getting ready to leave.

Another concern is we appear to be developing a trend of playing better the last third of the season. While that is great for trying to win the tournament, it’s not really a good trend unless you carry over the success from the previous season (which we haven’t shown we can do).

But our hitting has shown good strides…

Note: If we win the MVC tournament this week, the above is null and void and I will post that I knew we could do it!!!

not sure why a tournament win would absolve butler of the regular season woes. That was not the case for Gene and should not be now either

[Ricardo del Rio]

not sure why a tournament win would absolve butler of the regular season woes. That was not the case for Gene and should not be now either

Ray of sunshine + avoid cost of firing = Absolution

[Cdizzle]

I can't imagine why you guys want to get rid of any coach with a team ERA under 6.00, putting them squarely in the Top 85% of all NCAA D1 teams. Just silly.

[1972Shocker]

My guess, and it is nothing more than that, is that Coach Butler will return next year regardless of what we do in the post-season.

The injuries to Tewes and Schwanke will be used as an excuse, and perhaps legitimately so to some degree, plus injuries to a few other pitchers during the year (Sanborn, Biechler) and to the shoulder surgery Connor Lungwitz underwent last fall. To compound that Chase William and John Hayes struggled for a good part of the year and have only just recently seemed to find their games and their niche (and maybe the coaching staff finally figuring out how to best use them).

The improvement of our freshmen and sophomore hitters will also probabty be used as a reason to keep the status quo.

Who knows for sure what the incoming recruiting class will bring to the table. We have to find the pitching somewhere. Either the guys coming back have to step it up or the Coaches need to find and secure some new talent that can be effective and consistent. But the coaching staff will no doubt work overtime to put some kind of positve spin and the pitching for next year.

With a $1,340,000 buyout staring them in the face these reasons may seem more plausible then they otherwise would.

[shockfan89_]

I agree with your conclusion. The main question I have is whether PCBK will return next season. If there is animosity between HCTB and PCBK this would seem like the ideal time for HCTB to lobby for a change. It could also be used by HCTB to deflect the heat for the poor overall results since he took over (If only our pitching were as good as our hitting we would be much better...).

[1972Shocker]

That is interesting. Although we won 2 of the first 3 series and then lost 4 straight to finish the season. I didn't realize we only won 2 of the 7 weekend series'. I thought this was a positive at first, but like you stated, now I'm not sure what it means? Let's just leave it as interesting...

It means the Shocks were not very good this year.

[1972Shocker]

I agree with your conclusion. The main question I have is whether PCBK will return next season. If there is animosity between HCTB and PCBK this would seem like the ideal time for HCTB to lobby for a change. It could also be used by HCTB to deflect the heat for the poor overall results since he took over (If only our pitching were as good as our hitting we would be much better...).

Very possible. I didn't mention it because I have no way of knowing if there is any validity to the assertion that the relationship between HCTB and PCBK is strained. Another factor I failed to mention is that we have an interim athletic director. Does Boatright feel empowered enough to pull the plug on HCTB (assuming he would even want to)?

[Ricardo del Rio]

Very possible. I didn't mention it because I have no way of knowing if there is any validity to the assertion that the relationship between HCTB and PCBK is strained. Another factor I failed to mention is that we have an interim athletic director. Does Boatright feel empowered enough to pull the plug on HCTB (assuming he would even want to)?

I suspect it is not common for an interim AD to fire head coaches of a major sport. The AD might suggest the notion be given consideration by higher ranking officials, but I do not think he is going to be pounding on his desk and saying, "By God, Butler has to go."

When does Coach Kemnitz's contract expire?

[SB Shock]

When does Coach Kemnitz's contract expire?

I think his contract has the same length as Butler. But maybe I'm misremembering. So there is probably another buyout that factors into the equation.

[ShockTalk]

I think his contract has the same length as Butler. But maybe I'm misremembering. So there is probably another buyout that factors into the equation.

Not if the next coach has to take him on. :wink-new:

[shockfan89_]

I think his contract has the same length as Butler. But maybe I'm misremembering.

I remember the same thing but I couldn't find it with just a quick search.

[mr_baseball]

I could have swore Brent had a 3 year deal. But maybe I'm miss-remembering..lol.

[shockfan89_]

I could have swore Brent had a 3 year deal. But maybe I'm miss-remembering..lol.

Which would mean his contract expires at the end of next season correct? One year left on his contact under the previous coach (2014) and then three additional years (2015, 2016, 2017)?