Who Returns?

[pogo]

Well that was a little harsh.:) I believe it was based on HCTB evaluating each player as to his talent, ceiling and attitude vs what he believes he has coming in next year. It will remain to be seen if the new talent is better than those that are leaving but you have to give HCTB the room to maneuver and head the program in his direction.

[ShockTalk]

Whether you agree with him or not, I think the fact that the coach has told 7 players they are not returning next year shows that he over recruited by around 7 players. I am particularly surprised about Kris Gardner and Garrett Brummett being cut. They have at least shown potential to pitch well, something that not all of the returning pitchers have demonstrated.

Not saying this isn't true, but do you have a quote or proof they were cut and not leaving on their own or that they were no longer receiving any scholarship dollars and left rather than walk-on?

[1972Shocker]

Not saying this isn't true, but do you have a quote or proof they were cut and not leaving on their own or that they were no longer receiving any scholarship dollars and left rather than walk-on?

That was my question. I don't think Kris Gardner was cut. He has received his degree and will pursue his masters at a school in Texas and may or may not play his final year of eligibility. He had not decided as of the end of May. Kris said he is leaving WSU on good terms.

I have no idea about the other guys. I suspect it is because of a mix of reasons. Joe Haddox, who hit a woeful 0.129 with only 4 hits and 12 K's in 31 AB's, ended up at NAIA Oklahoma City University. He could have very well not been invited back, but probably has found a much better fit for him and will give him a better chance to play.

So with Kris and Joe, at least, sounds like a positive outcome for the player in both cases. Hopefully, that will prove to be the case for the other 5 guys as well.

[ShockTalk]

Whether you agree with him or not, I think the fact that the coach has told 7 players they are not returning next year shows that he over recruited by around 7 players. I am particularly surprised about Kris Gardner and Garrett Brummett being cut. They have at least shown potential to pitch well, something that not all of the returning pitchers have demonstrated.

That was my question. I don't think Kris Gardner was cut. He has received his degree and will pursue his masters at a school in Texas and may or may not play his final year of eligibility. He had not decided as of the end of May. Kris said he is leaving WSU on good terms.

I have no idea about the other guys. I suspect it is because of a mix of reasons. Joe Haddox, who hit a woeful 0.129 with only 4 hits and 12 K's in 31 AB's, ended up at D-II Oklahoma City University. He could have very well not been invited back, but probably has found a much better fit for him and will give him a better chance to play.

So with Kris and Joe, at least, sounds like a positive outcome for the player in both cases. Hopefully, that will prove to be the case for the other 5 guys as well.

@shox1989:, I'm glad that you didn't give up on the Shocker baseball team after Gene was let go and still take a strong interest in the program. That said, if you know Garrett was cut, say how and if that is the case, it IS very unfortunate.

I posted in another thread that Garrett appears to have had adequate chances. Kris took the 4th starter role from Garrett by pitching 3 scoreless innings in relief against IN St 2 games before Garrett's last (and bad) start and generally pitched well having an ERA of 3.45 to finish the season (including the IN St game). There was only 1 game after Garrett's last start where Elam, Ladwig, Tewes, or Gardner did not start. Yes, Garrett did not start it. Cody Tyler got his one and only start of the season. In fact, there were only 7 games for the whole season not started by the previous 4 I mentioned...Brummett got 4, Palmer 2, and Tyler 1. There were just not that many opportunities. Tewes replaced Garrett as the 3rd weekend starter, then he lost the mid-week to Gardner. He also pitched very poorly in 2 of 3 relief appearances when he was no longer starting.

I just do not see that Butler did anything wrong in how he handled this situation during the season. Unfortunately, the games this year were the only games Butler saw Garrett pitch.

[baseballislife]

To set the record straight. Brummett is not coming back. His scholarship was taken away. HCTB said he could walk on but he chose to not play for a guy that demands respect instead of earning it from his players. the question was raised earlier about fresh all americans that come back and have crappy seasons and in my opinion it is from lack of development. There are a lot of questions being raised about the pitching staff - where was Kemnitz???? Coach Walker was calling pitches while Kemnitz sat on the bench with his arms crossed.

HCTB may be a great recruiter, I hear there are 50 on the fall roster, but he has never proven to be a winning coach. After all he was the third choice on the list to be hired. Eric Sexton should have put more effort into hiring a quality head coach that was proven instead of a no name assistant.

The loyal Shocker baseball fans that were used to Gene's way of developing players and watching them grow as student athletes will be a thing of the past. The program will be run like a minor league professional team, if you don't produce you're out. Pretty sad considering they are STUDENT athletes, I guess WSU won't have to worry about senior day!

[pogo]

You obviously have inside information about HCTB being the third choice of ADES. I have no idea how much of an effort was made in hiring the new head coach but you seem to. It is tough to replace a beloved commander if it is perceived as being controversial at best. I saw it several times while in the Marines. The best way to do that is to go into the situation and spell out the ground rules and enforce them equally to all. There is no way to make everyone happy in these types of situations. Moving into a situation like HCTB did, or anyone for that matter, respect has to be earned over a period of time but make no mistake about it just the fact that he is the leader, respect must be given if not to him but to the position he holds. Over the due course of time respect for him as the leader and as the coach will be what makes or breaks his career. It was the perception of Gene's inability to recruit a higher talent of incoming players so their ceiling was not limited or Gene and his assistants failed to develop players to the expectations of fans (as well as his own inability to change) that necessitated the change. I would assume that the reason that coach Walker called the pitches was because he WAS a catcher and has worked DIRECTLY with the catchers so perhaps they felt better about having coach Walker call the pitches rather than Coach Kemnitz. I find it interesting that you referred to both HCTB and Coach walked as coaches but referred to Coach Kemnitz as only Kemnitz. Perhaps a Freudian slip?

[WuShock16]

As we have seen on the hardwood with the basketball team, you'd better produce or you'll be gone. Scholarships and roster spots are too important to give to guys who aren't successful. It doesn't make those players bad guys or lower life forms. It's just the way of the world with major college athletics, especially with a coaching change involved. If you want to watch a program with less pressure that doesn't force guys to produce to stay on the team, go to the west side and watch Friends or Newman baseball.

Besides, in most cases, guys who come to play baseball at Wichita State probably have some thought in their minds of wanting to be drafted. Therefore, wouldn't you think that running a program like a minor league squad would actually be a good thing? We hear about football programs that prepare their players by running an NFL-type system. It makes sense to run a college baseball program the same way.

[1972Shocker]

To set the record straight. Brummett is not coming back. His scholarship was taken away. HCTB said he could walk on but he chose to not play for a guy that demands respect instead of earning it from his players.

What are Garrett's plans? Looks like he is having a decent summer season (3.90 ERA) for the Lakeshore Chinooks in the Northwoods League.

Hopefully, Garrett finds a good opportunity and takes advantage of it. Wish him well.

[pogo]

What are Garrett's plans? Looks like he is having a decent summer season (3.90 ERA) for the Lakeshore Chinooks in the Northwoods League.

Hopefully, Garrett finds a good opportunity and takes advantage of it. Wish him well.

Ditto

[shock49]

Brummett & Bobbitt will play for Emporia State

[SPEShockAlum]

Maybe this has been mentioned before, but I was just on goshockers.com looking for a phone number in the athletic department and see Parker Zimmerman listed as a student coach.

[WSUwatcher]

FYI, pogo -- under the Gene regime, Kemmitz didn't call pitches, nor did Gene (as some head coaches do); the catchers did. That was different from most college programs, and it was part of the learning and development process at WSU.

[pogo]

FYI, pogo -- under the Gene regime, Kemmitz didn't call pitches, nor did Gene (as some head coaches do); the catchers did. That was different from most college programs, and it was part of the learning and development process at WSU.

I knew that because that was one of the big selling points they used to make to recruiting catchers. It also forces the catcher to be in tune with "his" pitchers. Sorry if I gave that impression. It would be interesting to know why the current coaching staff feels compelled to call the pitches.

[WSUwatcher]

Having the coaches call pitches seems to be mainstream practice in college baseball, but the quality of Shocker catching recruits and their performance as pros spoke well of Gene's approach, at least for many years. More recently, that dropped off as well (although it probably would have continued to look pretty good had Derek Norris stuck around for three years instead of signing pro).

I liked it and thought it was a good, grown-up practice and development tool. We'll see how things go with the new regime.

[Ed Harley]

A savvy catcher can see & feel things the bench coaches can't - O'Brien, Wrona, Mirabelli.

On the other hand, the bench coaches can keep less savvy catchers out of trouble with pitch selection.