Who Returns?

[1972Shocker]

On his radio show Coach Butler did not say specifically who was and who wasn't coming back but he did acknowledge that there were some players who would not be back next year. He also seemed pretty certain that Tyler Baker and Chase Simpson would sign. I assume he has talked with enough scouts that he has a good feel that they will be drafted and talked with the players about their desire to sign as well.

Perhaps the discussion of summer ball might shine as good a light as any on who will be back next year. Daniel Kihle and Sam Tewes will both be playing in the Cape Cod league this summer. Tewes, however, will sit out the 1st half of the Cape Cod season. The did not mention specific assignments for anyone else but did say Ray Ashford, Reagan Biechler and Mitch McIntyre will pitch this summer and Tanner Dearman, Mikel Mucha, Wes Phillips, and Tanner Kirk would be playing summer ball.

Cody Tyler (arm surgery) and Parker Zimmerman (concussion) would not be playing summer ball.

This doesn't mean the players not mentioned are not coming back necessarily, but it might at least bring the possibility they won't be back into question. Players that were not mentioned include Bob Arens, Cody Bobbitt, Austin Bright, Garrett Brummett, Michael Burns, Austin Gardner, Kris Gardner, Joe Haddox, Zair Koeiman and T.J. Looney. Based on recent observations by Paul Suellentrop he seemed to think Michael Burns would be back next year.

[Play Angry]

Sully on top of things.

http://www.kansas.com/2014/05/28/3479697/wsu-notes-tewes-could-return-from.html

[SB Shock]

Sully on top of things.

http://www.kansas.com/2014/05/28/347...turn-from.html

So it doesn't sound like Butler is over recruiting

Seven Shockers will not return next season, Butler said, as he made cuts to keep WSU at the NCAA limit of 27 players on scholarship or as players decided to transfer in search of more playing time

[WSUwatcher]

Some good points, SB. The rule that a school can only divide its scholarships a maximum of 27 ways pretty much builds in some instability, and if it had been in place 30 years ago, Gene Stephenson probably would never have developed the reputation, which he had for so long, of a guy who wouldn't dump a player. It's almost impossible not to recruit large classes these days if you want to maintain a good talent pool.

I'll be eager to see how the pitching staff shakes out next year. I still fondly remember when WSU could use a regular pro-style rotation instead of the collegiate weekend vs. midweek approach, chiefly because they had enough quality starters that it didn't matter that much who pitched when.

We haven't seen that for a while, and when I lament the lack of depth that's what I'm talking about -- it doesn't mean much to have a 12-man staff if half of them can't be relied on. And to my mind, Kemnitz still has some refurbishing to do. PaulS's article about players not returning mentioned Kris Gardner and Garrett Brummett, both of whom went from freshman all-Americans to mediocrity or worse. That's not the kind of pitcher development we've traditionally seen at WSU, and we need to see better.

[molly jabali]

Some good points, SB. The rule that a school can only divide its scholarships a maximum of 27 ways pretty much builds in some instability, and if it had been in place 30 years ago, Gene Stephenson probably would never have developed the reputation, which he had for so long, of a guy who wouldn't dump a player. It's almost impossible not to recruit large classes these days if you want to maintain a good talent pool.

I'll be eager to see how the pitching staff shakes out next year. I still fondly remember when WSU could use a regular pro-style rotation instead of the collegiate weekend vs. midweek approach, chiefly because they had enough quality starters that it didn't matter that much who pitched when.

We haven't seen that for a while, and when I lament the lack of depth that's what I'm talking about -- it doesn't mean much to have a 12-man staff if half of them can't be relied on. And to my mind, Kemnitz still has some refurbishing to do. PaulS's article about players not returning mentioned Kris Gardner and Garrett Brummett, both of whom went from freshman all-Americans to mediocrity or worse. That's not the kind of pitcher development we've traditionally seen at WSU, and we need to see better.

I'm a big Kemnitz fan, but that last line is correct.It's always intriguing to figure out what factors go into a guy going from frosh All American to average overnight.

[1972Shocker]

So according to Paul Suellentrop 12 Shockers, as of now, will be returning next year and will be playing summer ball:

Pitchers (5 or 6): Ray Ashford, Reagan Biechler, Austin Bright, T.J. Looney, and Sam Tewes. Not mentioned by Sully was Tyler Cody who is undergoing arm surgery. He was also not listed as one of the seven players not returning. My guess he will be back if his rehab goes well.

Catchers (1): Brandon Kimbrel, a transfer from Hutch Juco who apparently redshirted this past season. Not mentioned by Sully was Bob Arens who I do not expect back next year nor did he mention Parker Zimmerman who I also do not expect back next year due to his concussion issues.

Infielders (4): Michael Burns, Tanner Dearman, Tanner Kirk, and Wes Phillips

Outfielders (2): Daniel Kihle and Mikel Mucha

So assuming Cody Tyler returns and Parker Zimmerman does not, and assuming the MLB draft takes Gillaspie, Ladwig, Baker and Simpson as currently projected that is 13 returning players. Currently the 2014 recruiting class list contains 24 names. That puts us at a total of 37, two over the roster limit. My guess is that the MLB draft will cut down the 2014 recruiting class enough to eliminate that excess. We will just have to see how that goes.

So at this point, based on a reasonable expectation of a loss of at least a couple recruits to the MLB draft, I have to agree with @SB Shock and say that it does not look to me that HCTB has over-recruited.

Of course, if we don't lose any of the recruiting class to the draft then a couple more cuts will be forthcoming. We may not know where we stand for sure until the July 18th signing deadline for this years draft.

[Iamsecond]

So according to Paul Suellentrop 12 Shockers, as of now, will be returning next year and will be playing summer ball:

Pitchers (5 or 6): Ray Ashford, Reagan Biechler, Austin Bright, T.J. Looney, and Sam Tewes. Not mentioned by Sully was Tyler Cody who is undergoing arm surgery. He was also not listed as one of the seven players not returning. My guess he will be back if his rehab goes well.

Catchers (1): Brandon Kimbrel, a transfer from Hutch Juco who apparently redshirted this past season. Not mentioned by Sully was Bob Arens who I do not expect back next year nor did he mention Parker Zimmerman who I also do not expect back next year due to his concussion issues.

Infielders (4): Michael Burns, Tanner Dearman, Tanner Kirk, and Wes Phillips

Outfielders (2): Daniel Kihle and Mikel Mucha

So assuming Cody Tyler returns and Parker Zimmerman does not, and assuming the MLB draft takes Gillaspie, Ladwig, Baker and Simpson as currently projected that is 13 returning players. Currently the 2014 recruiting class list contains 24 names. That puts us at a total of 37, two over the roster limit. My guess is that the MLB draft will cut down the 2014 recruiting class enough to eliminate that excess. We will just have to see how that goes.

So at this point, based on a reasonable expectation of a loss of at least a couple recruits to the MLB draft, I have to agree with @SB Shock and say that it does not look to me that HCTB has over-recruited.

Of course, if we don't lose any of the recruiting class to the draft then a couple more cuts will be forthcoming. We may not know where we stand for sure until the July 18th signing deadline for this years draft.

I think the question and concern for the returning players and families would be with all of the recruiting that continues to go on now and through the summer. How many players the coaches will pick up and sign that will replace any of the players he has asked to come back and they will have to look for a place to go at the last minute

[KansasShocker]

I think the question and concern for the returning players and families would be with all of the recruiting that continues to go on now and through the summer. How many players the coaches will pick up and sign that will replace any of the players he has asked to come back and they will have to look for a place to go at the last minute

I don't think that is much of a concern, sure there may be a few players that catch the coaches eye that have somehow not been recruited. But the coaches are more concerned about getting recruits in for the years after this one. And honestly, from what I have heard, HCTB told many of the players that they can try walking on but there will be no guarantee that they make the team, if they get booted over the summer then that is the players fault, they received fair warning and still decided to take the chance.

[KansasShocker]

Pitchers (5 or 6): Ray Ashford, Reagan Biechler, Austin Bright, T.J. Looney, and Sam Tewes. Not mentioned by Sully was Tyler Cody who is undergoing arm surgery. He was also not listed as one of the seven players not returning. My guess he will be back if his rehab goes well.

I have heard that Cody Tyler will be going back to WSU but will not be on the roster because he will only be rehabbing. If that goes as planned then he will begin to play baseball at WSU the following year.

[Iamsecond]

Agree

[1972Shocker]

I think the question and concern for the returning players and families would be with all of the recruiting that continues to go on now and through the summer. How many players the coaches will pick up and sign that will replace any of the players he has asked to come back and they will have to look for a place to go at the last minute

Perhaps, but at this point most of the quality guys are probably committed. HCTB did say on his radio show Monday that current recruiting efforts were focused on the 2015 and 2016 classes. He said his SOP will be to recruit two class years at a time.

[tru2thaduce]

TJ Looney still on the team.SMH.

[shox1989]

So according to Paul Suellentrop 12 Shockers, as of now, will be returning next year and will be playing summer ball:

Pitchers (5 or 6): Ray Ashford, Reagan Biechler, Austin Bright, T.J. Looney, and Sam Tewes. Not mentioned by Sully was Tyler Cody who is undergoing arm surgery. He was also not listed as one of the seven players not returning. My guess he will be back if his rehab goes well.

Catchers (1): Brandon Kimbrel, a transfer from Hutch Juco who apparently redshirted this past season. Not mentioned by Sully was Bob Arens who I do not expect back next year nor did he mention Parker Zimmerman who I also do not expect back next year due to his concussion issues.

Infielders (4): Michael Burns, Tanner Dearman, Tanner Kirk, and Wes Phillips

Outfielders (2): Daniel Kihle and Mikel Mucha

So assuming Cody Tyler returns and Parker Zimmerman does not, and assuming the MLB draft takes Gillaspie, Ladwig, Baker and Simpson as currently projected that is 13 returning players. Currently the 2014 recruiting class list contains 24 names. That puts us at a total of 37, two over the roster limit. My guess is that the MLB draft will cut down the 2014 recruiting class enough to eliminate that excess. We will just have to see how that goes.

So at this point, based on a reasonable expectation of a loss of at least a couple recruits to the MLB draft, I have to agree with @SB Shock and say that it does not look to me that HCTB has over-recruited.

Of course, if we don't lose any of the recruiting class to the draft then a couple more cuts will be forthcoming. We may not know where we stand for sure until the July 18th signing deadline for this years draft.

Whether you agree with him or not, I think the fact that the coach has told 7 players they are not returning next year shows that he over recruited by around 7 players. I am particularly surprised about Kris Gardner and Garrett Brummett being cut. They have at least shown potential to pitch well, something that not all of the returning pitchers have demonstrated.

[Kung Wu]

Cutting Garrett Brummett is bad juju for a whole 'nother reason.

[SB Shock]

Whether you agree with him or not, I think the fact that the coach has told 7 players they are not returning next year shows that he over recruited by around 7 players.

If that is the criteria for determining if coach overrecruited then gene did it ever year - there were multiple players leaving under gene each year. The reality is it is not the players fault that gene recruited NAIA players instead of division 1 players.