What was the REAL REASON... (unbelievable)

[bleed yellow]

Gene probably should have been fired after the 2010 season.. The program was allowed to slide into a dark abyss as a result and now HCTB has A LOT of work to do, hell the chances of him pulling this thing out of the abyss are just as high as they are of him not being able to.. I seem to recall some anger over how the firing of Gene was handled. After what I've seen so far this season, I can't help but wonder if Sexton should have shown Gene the door at least 3 years before this embarrassing season.

[Cdizzle]

Removing a HC that built a program from the ground up, won a National Championship and NCoY honors, 2 years following back-to-back Super Regional appearances is a completely irrational move.

It would be like (even worse than, really) firing Marshall if the basketball team goes 18-14 in FVV's senior season.

[ShockTalk]

Removing a HC that built a program from the ground up, won a National Championship and NCoY honors, 2 years following back-to-back Super Regional appearances is a completely irrational move.

It would be like (even worse than, really) firing Marshall if the basketball team goes 18-14 in FVV's senior season.

That is not remotely the same.

WSU had become a "Blue Blood" in baseball and while the playing ground of college baseball had changed, few had expectations of the old glory years. The drop started back in 2000, not the last few years. On the national level, we became an average, run of the mill hitting team even though BK managed to continue to have premiere pitching staffs. I believe that half of the equation is much harder than the other.

However, Krusty was being paid at "Blue Blood" level despite lowering performance and that he left WSU for greener pastures. After WSU welcomed the staff back, the downward spiral continued. Yes, we made 2 Super Regionals. Six and seven years ago. While still making two regionals in the last 5 years, we had 4 of his worst winning percentages since his first year despite playing in a conference that also gotten worse.

Now you're telling me that NCAA basketball programs (not necessarily WSU) would continue to pay top a 5-10 salary after having been what they once were with where they are now and have been for 5 years. We're not even counting the fact that he left and all the other baggage.

[Kung Wu]

I hope it's because Sexton closed his eyes and imagined another National Championship during his own tenure. And when he did that he asked himself, "Can I do that with the leadership I have in place?" No visionary's dream was ever fulfilled without taking some risk.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

@Cdizzle: -- If you believe no one is being held accountable, it is obvious you have not been to the ballpark.

I heard upper class-men holding underclassmen accountable, I heard Coach Butler holding Phillips accountable, and I heard a lot of butches whining. When the butches are gone, we will rise again. Out pitching was good enough to win all 3 games this weekend. Our butches playing like pansies cost us those games. We have Tewes back next year, and hopefully Brummett also.

The pieces of turd (soft and stinky) that represent the end of the Stephenson era are about to be flushed.

[Rosewood]

I blame a lot of idiot fans - some who post here - who don't get that college baseball had changed and it had **** all to do with gene.

[WSUwatcher]

There are three questions to be asked about Butler's Shockers. The first two are more important, because they're long-term questions; the last is less important for the long haul but important right now to WSU fans who don't want to grind through any more misery than is absolutely necessary, and also to the guys currently in the program; plus, it may also give us clues about the answer to #2.

1. Can he and his staff recruit (and also hang on to players deciding whether to stay or go pro) better than Gene and his staff did in recent years? Obviously, it's way too soon to tell on this, and it probably will be for another year or two. The signs are certainly hopeful in terms of the energy the Butler regime has brought to recruiting and the number of players they've either signed or been able to get committed. What will take a while to learn is the quality of the players brought in, and how they develop.

2. Can the Butler regime develop talent once it's in the program better than its predecessor did? Again, way too soon to tell; it's also hard to judge quickly how much improvement is the result of a given player's having upside and refining his talent vs. being pretty fully developed already, but with less potential for growth. This is where scouts can help judge progress, and I don't pretend to be a scout.

3. Can the Butler regime get the players already here to play better? This is where the least progress has been shown, unfortunately. In fairness, this team has struggled with injuries, had to deal with suspensions that weren't the fault of the current staff, and is playing an upgraded schedule (not least because of improvement in the Valley itself). So the team and coaching staff deserve some slack here. Still, there have been way too many physical and mental errors, and they don't seem to be getting better at the pace one would like to see.

Certainly the pace of improvement by the current players is one that would have been roundly panned by the Gene bashers had a coaching change not been made, but all the former bashers are saying is right now, Let Butler recruit. Well, that's a fair point in regard to #1 and #2, and I agree -- but fans are also justified in being a little dubious about answer #3, at least so far; and in being a little concerned to the extent it may reflect on how #2 will be answered in the future.

[ShockTalk]

There are three questions to be asked about Butler's Shockers. The first two are more important, because they're long-term questions; the last is less important for the long haul but important right now to WSU fans who don't want to grind through any more misery than is absolutely necessary, and also to the guys currently in the program; plus, it may also give us clues about the answer to #2.

1. Can he and his staff recruit (and also hang on to players deciding whether to stay or go pro) better than Gene and his staff did in recent years? Obviously, it's way too soon to tell on this, and it probably will be for another year or two. The signs are certainly hopeful in terms of the energy the Butler regime has brought to recruiting and the number of players they've either signed or been able to get committed. What will take a while to learn is the quality of the players brought in, and how they develop.

2. Can the Butler regime develop talent once it's in the program better than its predecessor did? Again, way too soon to tell; it's also hard to judge quickly how much improvement is the result of a given player's having upside and refining his talent vs. being pretty fully developed already, but with less potential for growth. This is where scouts can help judge progress, and I don't pretend to be a scout.

3. Can the Butler regime get the players already here to play better? This is where the least progress has been shown, unfortunately. In fairness, this team has struggled with injuries, had to deal with suspensions that weren't the fault of the current staff, and is playing an upgraded schedule (not least because of improvement in the Valley itself). So the team and coaching staff deserve some slack here. Still, there have been way too many physical and mental errors, and they don't seem to be getting better at the pace one would like to see.

Certainly the pace of improvement by the current players is one that would have been roundly panned by the Gene bashers had a coaching change not been made, but all the former bashers are saying is right now, Let Butler recruit. Well, that's a fair point in regard to #1 and #2, and I agree -- but fans are also justified in being a little dubious about answer #3, at least so far; and in being a little concerned to the extent it may reflect on how #2 will be answered in the future.

As for #3, some players have improved, some have not. While Casey had very good stats last year, they are great stats this year. Also, Kihle and Parker have improved hitting among the regular field players. Bayliff and Dearman have regressed. Baker had horrible stats while we were winning, but has improved those numbers during the rough stretch. Go figure. Among non-starters, Bobbit and Haddox have done worse. With injuries, it's hard to tell if Zimmerman and Mucha would have held on to their limited stats. It all looks like a mixed bag for a number of reasons.

Any pitching problems/gains from the previous year would still have BK's influence, not Butler's.

[Kung Wu]

I blame a lot of idiot fans - some who post here - who don't get that college baseball had changed and it had **** all to do with gene.

I didn't understand your comment, and I know you are a knowledgeable and big Shocker baseball fan so I want to make sure I do. You are of the opinion that Gene had the willingness and ability to adapt to the changes in college baseball, or didn't have the willingness and/or ability to adapt to the changing scene?