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  • Let's be clear about the rebuild discussion, because the comments made by a variety of people have left some room for various interpretations (I'm not faulting anyone nor am I complaining).


    But the fact of the matter is this; had the coaching staff stayed in place (and I'm not saying they should or shouldn't have) then the vast majority of significant players were going to return for next season.

    There were 36 players on the roster. 1 is out of eligibility. Of the 35 remaining, by my count, 15 either did not play at all (redshirt, injury, not good enough) or played so minimally as to believe they weren't going to be a factor going forward. Were a good number of those 15 going to transfer anyway? Yes. Was that number increased with the staff change? Hard to tell, but I don't think so. I think the change in staff will prompt some to leave where as others will choose to stay mostly because they think they have a better shot to play now.

    But the majority of the other 20 would have returned. Not all, but the majority. I would speculate somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-17. There are certainly a LOT of variables that would cause any specific student athlete to transfer, and many of those have nothing to do with the coach or coaching staff.

    With the portal, kids that aren't playing are going to transfer. It's going to happen and with a roster of 35, a bunch aren't going to be playing.

    What I hope the kids see, understand and (properly) evaluate is how other schools are offering deals and what happens when you get cut. For example, when Dave Van Horn offers a kid extras through NIL and then 65 kids show up in fall ball and for whatever reason, your 86 MPH heater doesn't make the grade or you get hurt or whatever and end up one of the 30 kids he cuts, what happens to that "extra" money? (Hint, it goes bye bye). Just want the kids to play where they want and get paid if they can be. But do it for the right reasons (and realize what everyone's cut is going to be....Collective's, expenses, taxes et al).



    Comment


    • Originally posted by WuDrWu View Post
      Let's be clear about the rebuild discussion, because the comments made by a variety of people have left some room for various interpretations (I'm not faulting anyone nor am I complaining).


      But the fact of the matter is this; had the coaching staff stayed in place (and I'm not saying they should or shouldn't have) then the vast majority of significant players were going to return for next season.

      There were 36 players on the roster. 1 is out of eligibility. Of the 35 remaining, by my count, 15 either did not play at all (redshirt, injury, not good enough) or played so minimally as to believe they weren't going to be a factor going forward. Were a good number of those 15 going to transfer anyway? Yes. Was that number increased with the staff change? Hard to tell, but I don't think so. I think the change in staff will prompt some to leave where as others will choose to stay mostly because they think they have a better shot to play now.

      But the majority of the other 20 would have returned. Not all, but the majority. I would speculate somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-17. There are certainly a LOT of variables that would cause any specific student athlete to transfer, and many of those have nothing to do with the coach or coaching staff.

      With the portal, kids that aren't playing are going to transfer. It's going to happen and with a roster of 35, a bunch aren't going to be playing.

      What I hope the kids see, understand and (properly) evaluate is how other schools are offering deals and what happens when you get cut. For example, when Dave Van Horn offers a kid extras through NIL and then 65 kids show up in fall ball and for whatever reason, your 86 MPH heater doesn't make the grade or you get hurt or whatever and end up one of the 30 kids he cuts, what happens to that "extra" money? (Hint, it goes bye bye). Just want the kids to play where they want and get paid if they can be. But do it for the right reasons (and realize what everyone's cut is going to be....Collective's, expenses, taxes et al).


      Good analysis, and thanks for giving us the information that you are privy to regarding the program. The reason for varying comments regarding the rebuilding process, is that your analysis of what happened varies from what Pelf said in his interview. Now, I'm not taking sides on who is right (because I have no idea) but there is a difference of opinion on whether a significant number of players would have returned from last season if HIbbs returned, and we may not be getting the entire story from many kids because they don't like to be critical and discuss their lack of respect for Hibbs or others. Much of it may have to do with the coaches that return or do not return. Hopefully, we know more toward the end of the week, and the news is more positive than negative. But for right now, I can see your feeling that things are not going well with the new HC.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by WuDrWu View Post
        Let's be clear about the rebuild discussion, because the comments made by a variety of people have left some room for various interpretations (I'm not faulting anyone nor am I complaining).


        But the fact of the matter is this; had the coaching staff stayed in place (and I'm not saying they should or shouldn't have) then the vast majority of significant players were going to return for next season.

        There were 36 players on the roster. 1 is out of eligibility. Of the 35 remaining, by my count, 15 either did not play at all (redshirt, injury, not good enough) or played so minimally as to believe they weren't going to be a factor going forward. Were a good number of those 15 going to transfer anyway? Yes. Was that number increased with the staff change? Hard to tell, but I don't think so. I think the change in staff will prompt some to leave where as others will choose to stay mostly because they think they have a better shot to play now.

        But the majority of the other 20 would have returned. Not all, but the majority. I would speculate somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-17. There are certainly a LOT of variables that would cause any specific student athlete to transfer, and many of those have nothing to do with the coach or coaching staff.

        With the portal, kids that aren't playing are going to transfer. It's going to happen and with a roster of 35, a bunch aren't going to be playing.

        What I hope the kids see, understand and (properly) evaluate is how other schools are offering deals and what happens when you get cut. For example, when Dave Van Horn offers a kid extras through NIL and then 65 kids show up in fall ball and for whatever reason, your 86 MPH heater doesn't make the grade or you get hurt or whatever and end up one of the 30 kids he cuts, what happens to that "extra" money? (Hint, it goes bye bye). Just want the kids to play where they want and get paid if they can be. But do it for the right reasons (and realize what everyone's cut is going to be....Collective's, expenses, taxes et al).


        I hope Dave enjoys his view on the couch this weekend.
        Deuces Valley.
        ... No really, deuces.
        ________________
        "Enjoy the ride."

        - a smart man

        Comment


        • I'm not saying that things aren't going well with the new coach. Not at all. First, I have no idea how things are going with the new coach.

          Second, I have no problem with the new coach. I have a problem with how it was all handled, but nobody gives a **** if a have a problem or not (nor should they).

          Looking briefly at the contract, I like the incentive structure a lot more than any structure I've seen for a coach at WSU. I do not like that we're paying a new guy $50K more than we paid Eric yet are not funding other areas. Either do it right and the way it should be done (HC, AC, AC, AC, DOBO and all the support staff you need, however you do it) or run a half assed Valley program. And I'm ok either way (clearly I'd like the former more) but this doesn't make sense. Spending more to get a guy that you can trust, then falling short elsewhere makes little sense to me.

          As to the transfers, these are kids. Kids say different things to different people all the time. It happens. Also, circumstances change. I feel confident in the information I have, as I'm sure do others that are actually involved in the program. Doesn't mean we all aren't correct in what we were told.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ShockerFever View Post

            I hope Dave enjoys his view on the couch this weekend.
            I hope Dave is humiliated and depressed by the way his pigs pitched last weekend. F-him.
            An “Old West” Texas analysis and summary of Mueller report and Congress’ efforts in one sentence:

            "While we recognize that the subject did not actually steal any horses, he is obviously guilty of trying to resist being hanged for it."

            Comment


            • Just hoping we sign Scott Hatfield, and of course, Willie Mays Hayes.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JJClamdip View Post

                I hope Dave is humiliated and depressed by the way his pigs pitched last weekend. F-him.
                Where’s Charlie Boyce when you need him?
                Deuces Valley.
                ... No really, deuces.
                ________________
                "Enjoy the ride."

                - a smart man

                Comment


                • Reading through this thread, I think a lot of us (including annd especially me) may owe HCBG an apology. Lol
                  Brummett throws, STRUCK HIM OUT! THE SHOCKERS ARE NATIONAL CHAMPIONS! AN UNBELIEVABLE STORY!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Onegreatracer View Post
                    Reading through this thread, I think a lot of us (including annd especially me) may owe HCBG an apology. Lol
                    I haven't, and won't, read the thread. But I will say that while the first season was better than I expected and had some fun moments, it's also true that literally nothing has been accomplished yet, including keeping together any quality pieces for Year 2. I wouldn't be handing out either apologies and participation trophies; nor would I be handing out pink slips at this point.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Onegreatracer View Post
                      Reading through this thread, I think a lot of us (including annd especially me) may owe HCBG an apology. Lol
                      His first two months here began to change my mind.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Onegreatracer View Post
                        Reading through this thread, I think a lot of us (including annd especially me) may owe HCBG an apology. Lol
                        Thank you for being humble enough to admit it.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cdizzle View Post

                          I haven't, and won't, read the thread. But I will say that while the first season was better than I expected and had some fun moments, it's also true that literally nothing has been accomplished yet, including keeping together any quality pieces for Year 2. I wouldn't be handing out either apologies and participation trophies; nor would I be handing out pink slips at this point.
                          I'm sure he's waiting for your approval.....if you didn't see improvement at the end, well.....

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                          • nm
                            Last edited by Cdizzle; May 29, 2024, 09:02 AM.

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