What is "Acceptable" now?

[1972Shocker]

One of the questions I had coming into this season was how would Mike Steele's somewhat unusual approach of holding most of his pitching staff out of summer ball work out. Still a long way to go this season but the returns to so far seem pretty good.

Pual Suellentrop reports on this from Codi Heuer's experience with it.

http://goshockers.com/news/2018/3/24...is-spring.aspx

[1972Shocker]

So we are 40% through the season at 18-4 after today's win over Central Arkansas.

The tests start getting more difficult beginning this weekend. I see 5 pretty challenging AAC series with 3 of those on the road and 2 at home. ECU, Houston, and UCF on the road. UConn and USF at home. We also get Tulane and Cincy at home and Memphis on the road an hopefully the Shocks will do very well in these 3 series.

The 6 mid-week home and home games with OSU, KU and KSU will be a great opportunity for the Shocks, Teams from a pretty good conferrence but also teams picked to finish in the bottom part of the Big XII. ORU, UCA and SDSU round out the remaining non-con. All winnable games.

It would appear that the ECU, Houston, UCF, UConn and USF series will make or break this season as long as we take care of business in a reasonable fashion against the remainder of the schedule.

At this point we have the 15 games with the 5 best ACC teams plus 18 games left against what at this point appears to only a moderalety challenging group of opponents.

At this point i would have to say that failing to win at least 35 games this year would be pretty disappointing with this start and the remaining schedule. . Winning 40 games this year is not out of the realm of possibility at all. We can win 35 by winning 2 of 3 of the Tulane, Cincy & Memphis series, going 6-3 in the remaining non-con games and going 5-10 against ECU, Houston, UCF, UConn and USF. Relative to an 18-4 (0.818) start that is a pretty mundane 19-16 (.543) finish to the season but hopefully the Shocks will do better than that..

[ShockerFever]

I haven't see Doc in a while now but is this acceptable?

[1972Shocker]

Obviously the Shockers chances of an at-large bid continue to diminish and one more AAC loss may extinguish those hopes. 2 more AAC losses for sure would probably flip that switch. The Shocks only hope would be a long-shot AAC Tournament Championship.

However, the Shockers now have brought into play some possibility that they may not even make the AAC Touranment as only the Top 8 teams make the tournament. #9 gets to sit it out.

Memphis hung on today for a 4-3 win over UConn and still are firmly in contol of 9th place in the AAC at 3-15. However, they only trail the 8th place Shockers by 3 games with 6 games to play. Memphis has series remaining at 7th place Tulane and at home against the Shocks. The Shocks host USF (currently in a 3-way tie for 2nd) next weekend before closing out the season at Memphis.

It is not totally out of the realm of possiblity that the Shockers could fall into a tie or worse with Memphis at the bottom of the standings. If the Shocks lose a tiebreaker or finish last outright they will not even be playing in the AAC Tournament.

I'm sure this is a historical 1st for Shocker baseball. Having both a shot at an NCAA at-large bid and a shot at totally missing the Conference post-season tournament with only 2 weeks remaining in the regular season. Although perhaps both scenarios are perhaps longshots at this point.

[Cdizzle]

Not. This.

[WuDrWu]

I haven't see Doc in a while now but is this acceptable?

I am not going to fight and argue with those that want to hammer the coach or the program. I have better things to do with my time.

I started this thread early so that we could look back. So far, it looks like I might get everything except a top 3rd conference finish. However, at this point in time, the trend line is not good and it's hard to see things turning around, but that's the fan in all of us.

If we had lost 5 more non-conference games early, but were 9-9 in conference and 27-18 overall, I suspect the mood would be at least a little different, if not substantially different.

Let's see how we end up. Win 8 of 9 and 2-2 in the tournament and we'll be at least in the discussion for an at large. Continue the .500 or below trend and it will be uncomfortable, to say the least.

I'll still be at the games, supporting the student athletes and their efforts. Go Shocks!

[AndShock]

I’d be a lot more forgiving if Butler were being paid a reasonable salary. As it stands now he’s robbing us.

[WuDrWu]

I get what you're saying, but that's life in POW6R Athletics these days. Massively over pay the majority of coaches and put incredible expectations on them. Rinse and repeat. Or you can MoValley things and every single time your guy succeeds, he gone.

[ShockerFever]

Or you can wait til he proves his worth and give him a sizable raise for his efforts. At an established program like WSU, if he succeeds, he'll get rewarded as such. And likely stay.

I'd rather be at that point than throw money down the toilet by extending guy that hasn't proven SQUAT his entire head coaching career.

[1972Shocker]

I’d be a lot more forgiving if Butler were being paid a reasonable salary. As it stands now he’s robbing us.

Whoever our Coach is in the future I hope his contract has a lower base salary but is laced with incentives. Pay a a base salary of $150,000 and then layer on the incentives. An AAC Championshiip and/or an NCAA Regional Appearance $50,000. A Super-Regional Appearance $50,000. A CWS World Series appearance $50,000. A national championship $100,000. Perhaps an attendance based bonus. Give or take a little but you get the idea.

Any new Coach should be guaranteed 4 years. At the end of 4 years he can be bought out for 1-year's base salary. Base salaries and incentives adjusted annually for inflation. Merit raises to base salary at the discretion of the employer..

If the Coach lasts beyond his 4-year guaranteed contract add to bonuses for career wins milestones.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

No offense, but I think some need to realize how far baseball has evolved. Especially over the past 5 years.

How many NCAA baseball coaches make $1m a year? What do the coaches of SEC bottom dwellars make?

I’ll hang up and listen.

[1972Shocker]

We aren't in the SEC. The question would be what is the average base salary of AAC coaches. We should be more or less competitive with that but I still would like a big chunk of the compensation to be perforumance based.

Does anyone have any relevant data on Division 1 Head baseball coaching salaries?

If the supply and demand dictates we have to pay more than we have to pay more. What did Cincinnati have to pay to lure Scott Googins away from Xavier? Not sure how much Cincy is paying Googins but the guy he replaced Ty Neal earned total compensation of $157,857 in 2016.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

That was my only point here. There are 6 coaches making over a million dollars.

The average SEC coach makes almost $600,000.

The talk wasnt about competing in the SEC. It was about winning Regionals and Super Regionals. To do that, you have to beat the SEC.

It can be done. It can be done here. It cannot be done here for $450k/yr.

[ShockerFever]

Is that a flipping joke?

[ShockerFever]

I am not going to fight and argue with those that want to hammer the coach or the program. I have better things to do with my time.

I started this thread early so that we could look back. So far, it looks like I might get everything except a top 3rd conference finish. However, at this point in time, the trend line is not good and it's hard to see things turning around, but that's the fan in all of us.

If we had lost 5 more non-conference games early, but were 9-9 in conference and 27-18 overall, I suspect the mood would be at least a little different, if not substantially different.

Let's see how we end up. Win 8 of 9 and 2-2 in the tournament and we'll be at least in the discussion for an at large. Continue the .500 or below trend and it will be uncomfortable, to say the least.

I'll still be at the games, supporting the student athletes and their efforts. Go Shocks!

So you're saying the gaudy early season record playing a bunch of patsies set WSU up to fail and made WSU look worse than it actually is? When in reality the opposite happened and WSU looked better than they actually were because of a non-con full of patsies (I'm talking about weekends.) Butler wanted wins and he got them. The problem is when WSU started playing teams with pulses on weekends they got exposed. So no matter how A got to B, the results are what they are. The fact that they are collapsing because they are losing more games now than if they were earlier in the year is not relevant. It actually makes it look worse now because they won games against bad teams and people propped them up for that. In reality, they are the same coached team as before, only difference is they're actually winning games against terrible teams now. They still can't win in the conference and they still can't beat good teams (especially on weekends).

Your scenario of let's see what happens at the end, if they go on a tear, goes 2-2 in the conference tourney, and is left praying for an at-large, is the same situation a legendary coach was fired for 5 years ago. In year FIVE, this is the PEAK of the current coach's success with a team full of experienced juniors and seniors.

As for supporting the student athletes.. Unfortunately, if you support the student athletes, you also are supporting the head coach and the administration. I get it. The players are Shockers. But if the team was 8-30 right now, would it make sense to pack the park full of 5,000 fans all in the name of student athlete support? What message would that send to the administration and coaching staff? That they are fine with them. That they are getting money, which is all the administration cares about.

I'll support the players but it's abundantly clear that the coaching staff has failed, especially as AndShock pointed out, at the rate they are getting paid.

The time to say goodbye was yesterday.

[Cdizzle]

No offense, but I think some need to realize how far baseball has evolved. Especially over the past 5 years.

How many NCAA baseball coaches make $1m a year? What do the coaches of SEC bottom dwellars make?

I’ll hang up and listen.

Seriously. Give it up.

Or not. I'm half excited to hear the new made up excuses next week.

Butler isn't in the SEC. He hasn't competed at the top of any of the 3 conferences he has been in as a head coach, and has had above average resources in those leagues.

Winners win.

[ShockerFever]

No offense, but I think some need to realize how far baseball has evolved. Especially over the past 5 years.

How many NCAA baseball coaches make $1m a year? What do the coaches of SEC bottom dwellars make?

I’ll hang up and listen.

Wtf does that mean? Wasn't Stephenson fired because the game was "passing him by"? And now that same excuse is being laid out for Butler? I'm not sure which resume I would take if you really think WSU is destined for mediocrity.

WSU has tradition, facilities, support, and proven to pay TOP money for results that matter. How the **** is that different than the bottom of the SEC?

I'd take WSU's program over Alabama's or Tennessee's any day of the week.

Good Lord with the EXCUSES. These people cannot fathom a possibility a coach better than Butler can be at WSU. Now that's f****** SAD.

[Cdizzle]

btdubs, ORU just scored on an error, passed ball, wild pitch, fielder's choice. Pretty much a microcosm of the last 4 years.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

Wtf does that mean? Wasn't Stephenson fired because the game was "passing him by"? And now that same excuse is being laid out for Butler? I'm not sure which resume I would take if you really think WSU is destined for mediocrity.

WSU has tradition, facilities, support, and proven to pay TOP money for results that matter. How the **** is that different than the bottom of the SEC?

I'd take WSU's program over Alabama's or Tennessee's any day of the week.

Good Lord with the EXCUSES. These people cannot fathom a possibility a coach better than Butler can be at WSU. Now that's f****** SAD.

Lol.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Playing some exceptional devil's advocate I see.

I hope.


T


...:cool:

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

Nah. Just love watching this dude lose his mind over **** he makes up.

And waiting for you to get the good news.

[C0|dB|00ded]

I posted a baseball stadium porn thread on the Hoopla site. There were a few contributions. GD our facilities still stack up nicely against the rest of the country.

http://sportshoop.la/threads/college-baseball-stadium-p0rn.255756/

T


...:cool: