Fire Gene Stephenson

[tripleshock]

A small sample of salaries for head coaches who are twice as successful and make significantly less than Gene Stephenson:

Dave Serrano, Cal State Fullerton- $150,000
Tim Esmay, Arizona State- $175,000
Mitch Gaspard, Alabama- $225,000
Kevin O'Sullivan- Florida- $300,000
John Pawloski, Auburn- $300,000

I stress that this is a very, very small sample of the population.

Wanna argue that we can't attract a good candidate if we pay them what Gene makes?

At those prices, we could get just about any 2 of those for what we're currently wasting on our 1.

[giskard]

We need to remember that they lost 2 key fielders and the ace of the staff to injuries, yet still forced Creighton to sweep MSU to win the Valley. Even if this is the worst team in years, it didn't do that badly.

I don't like the idea of forcing Stephenson out. ADES should probably sit down with him and ask him does he still have the fire and desire to go after a CWS. What would it look like to another coach if we forced GS out at this point? We are winning, just not enough.

[tripleshock]

yeah, we're winning:


Except for the Misouri Valley regular season

Except for the Missouri Valley Conference Tournament

Except for games against a Big 12 opponents

Except for anyrhing that really matters at all


hey, but we beat ND State, and Niagara, and so on.....


yeah, we're winning in your mind.

[shox1989]

A small sample of salaries for head coaches who are twice as successful and make significantly less than Gene Stephenson:

Dave Serrano, Cal State Fullerton- $150,000
Tim Esmay, Arizona State- $175,000
Mitch Gaspard, Alabama- $225,000
Kevin O'Sullivan- Florida- $300,000
John Pawloski, Auburn- $300,000

I stress that this is a very, very small sample of the population.

Wanna argue that we can't attract a good candidate if we pay them what Gene makes?

Those are base salaries. Gene's base salary is something just over $200,000. Three of those guys already have a larger base salary than Gene. Gene's actual salary after all incentives, extras, and bonuses was over $433,000.

Also 4 of those guys coach teams that play in a BCS conference and probably have operating and recruiting budgets that are much larger than WSU's.

And all 5 of those guys coach in warm weather climates in areas where there are a lot more good baseball players to recruit.

I don't see any of them leaving for a job in the Mo Valley, no matter how much we might try to pay them or even if we could give them large budget increases.

[GoShockers89]

The peak bonus for anyone on that list is $84,000. Still less than Gene.

But please, feel free to continue putting down the school and program by suggesting that we are incapable of attracting anyone decent now or in the future.

[ShockerFever]

shox1989 seems to always be that ***** in the side, whether it's in the basketball forum or baseball forum. Thankfully, his sentiments are shared by a distant minority in Shocker Nation.

So shox1989, you say Gene is the be-all, end-all. So how many more years does this 60-something year old coach have in em? 2? 5? Are you saying in 5 years, we're doomed as a baseball program? Are you suggesting that nobody else can take us out of what is now the third best program in the state distinction?

Are you really that bland? Are you really suggesting that we'll become mediocre lunch meat in a few years? And it's because of the eventual loss of Gene?

You have issues and very pathetic future expectations.

[ISASO]

What does Rob Walton make per year at ORU?

If there's a bell-weather indication of what our program was and what our program might be, Rob Walton might be it.

[shox1989]

You guys seem to think it is so easy for a northern school playing in a non-BCS conference to get to the College World Series.

Northern schools rarely make it to Omaha and northern schools from non-BCS conferences are even rarer.

The last time ANY big 10 school made it to Omaha was Michigan I believe in 1984. And the last time any big 10 school won the CWS was Ohio State in like 1968. If big 10 schools with all of their resources can't do it, why do you guys think hiring a new coach will somehow make it easier for WSU to get to Omaha?

Gene has done it seven times. How many times has Rob Walton taken ORU to the CWS?

All I am saying is it isn't very easy for WSU with Gene as the head coach and it won't be any easier for the next coach either. And you better make sure we make a very good pick, otherwise we could find ourselves wishing for teams like this year.

I am not saying we can't get a good coach (although I don't believe anyone on the list posted above would take this job for the reasons stated before- warm weather schools, BCS- 4 of them, good recruiting areas).

But how many coaches will be willing to raise their operating budgets and recruiting budgets themselves? How many are willing to have an AA only if they can raise their salary from private funds? How many are willing to accept limits like 1/3 of the scholarship players have to be from Kansas?
I don't think anybody that has a BCS job would be willing to take that kind of contract just to coach a northern school in the Mo Valley.

I know the day will come when we will need to hire a new coach, but unlike some of you I am hoping that day is NOT soon. Finding someone who has been as successful as Gene will NOT be easy.

[WuDrWu]

There are fair points on both sides of this issue. And being on the side of replacing Gene, I don't think for one second that hiring someone different means instant success.

I realize that making a change is not only dangerous, but we could very well end up in a much worse situation than where we are today.

I also don't want to make a change flippantly because we lost a game (or games). I don't want Gene fired because we lost to KU or to CU in the finals of the MVC.

I want Gene fired because we SHOULD have lost to CU in the finals.

I don't like the way the team plays, the effort & execution and the way they adjust (or don't adjust) in games, and I look at the trends.

And even if we concede that some other programs are simply going to be better (more money, warmer weather, BCS etc) over time, how are we trending "at our level".....up or down?

The answer is down, it's been down for a while and there is NOTHING to make one think it's about to change at all.

[ShockRef]

I normally don't post in the baseball forum (except to state how stupid MSU players look with their eye black).

However, the root problem with this team was apparent when you take a casual look at the stats.

When you rely on your supposed best fielder/player and he commits an error every other game, you have a problem.

When your ace pitcher goes down early with a season ending injury, you have a problem.

When your stud #3 & 4 hitters go through varying degrees of inconsistent hitting throughout the year, you have a problem.

When your #2 hitter strikes out more than he makes contact, you have a problem.

When you have more strike outs more than contact outs in the Valley Championship game, you have a problem.


I'm not close enough to the program to know about inside issues with the coaches.

I do know GS's off-field issues were embarrassing to the school and largely over looked.
That happens today when you are winning because that's all that matters anymore. Now that they aren't winning, it certainly becomes an item of discussion and back to center stage. 8)

[BostonWu]

I also don't want to make a change flippantly because we lost a game (or games). I don't want Gene fired because we lost to KU or to CU in the finals of the MVC.

I want Gene fired because we SHOULD have lost to CU in the finals.

I don't like the way the team plays, the effort & execution and the way they adjust (or don't adjust) in games, and I look at the trends.

Bingo. Status quo rules the day with this program. They simply don't compete at the plate and make the necessary adjustments...Actually you could apply that to just about any aspect of the program...no adjustments whether it's at the plate, recruiting strategy or coaching staff. If no adjustments are ever made then how can we reasonably expect the results to differ? I swear this program seems like it's been on autopilot for quite awhile.

[GoShockers89]

Yes, Gene has a long and storied history. And all of it took place in the 1980s and 1990s. Nobody on our returning roster was alive when we won our national championship. Think about that for just a second.

I never said we could hire away Florida or Alabama's coach. Their salaries PROVE two things:

1) Our return on investment with the current staff is beyond poor.
2) We could, in fact, attract a high quality candidate to WSU baseball

When you consider the facilities, salaries, and other resources this program has, a stark analogy may be drawn. It is as if we were paying a basketball coach upwards of $3 million per year, drawing nearly 20,000 fans per game, and still unable to beat our Valley brethren. That is the level of disparity between the resources our baseball program has at its fingertips compared with our league peers.

Yes, Gene has shown he had what it takes to be the best. A long time ago. He has also shown he has what it takes to consistently lose to less talented teams with abysmal resources. Right now.

Shox1989 has blind loyalty, and that is fine. I do too. Only mine is to WSU, his is to Gene Stephenson. You have to be able to separate the two.

[shoxlax]

The wins and losses are just a part of it. I realize every program has valleys. It's these four reasons I believe we need a change:

1. The Oklahoma debacle and the cavalier attitudes displayed by Krusty and his coaches when he assumed his return would be granted;
2. His off field philandering and association with a known pedophile;
3. The fact that any underclassman, wherever he gets drafted, seems to bolt for the pros;
4. As Doc pointed out, the simple lack of fundamentals in the field and purpose at the plate that his teams have had the last three years.

But he won't get fired unless he has more off field shenanigans. The best we can hope for is Krusty seeing the writing on the wall and taking a retirement job at a sun belt small school to pile up a few more wins or the university not renewing his contract.

[SB Shock]

You guys seem to think it is so easy for a northern school playing in a non-BCS conference to get to the College World Series.

We are beyond expecting this team to get to the CWS. It has been 15 years. You have a new generation of ball players who only know that WSU made it to the CWS by reading the media guide. Now it is an accomplishment if WSU can actually win the MVC (BTW which is full of far Northern teams).

The program is losing support fairly fast. If you look at attendance in the last 5 years - it is clearly seen. Anybody know what is happening with All-American club sales?

[GoShockers89]

That chart's gonna fall off a cliff next season.