Shox vs. OSU Cowboys

[ISASO]

WSU baseball has become just another upper-tier Valley-level baseball team. We used to execute the fundamentals as well as anyone in the country, certainly better than anyone in the MVC, which led to 14 straight conference titles.

Now we have given away all that advantage, making us very ordinary. :cry:

[WuDrWu]

I think we have good kids, and I appreciate the accomplishments of the program both on and off the diamond, but I witnessed way too many smiles and giggling from our players during the 9th inning last night.

[ShockerFever]

I witnessed way too many smiles and giggling from our players during the 9th inning last night.

Yep x 1000

:roll:

[SB Shock]

I think we have good kids, and I appreciate the accomplishments of the program both on and off the diamond, but I witnessed way too many smiles and giggling from our players during the 9th inning last night.

The tone starts with the coaches.

[JohnnieBallgame]

Do you seriously think "smiles and giggles" indicate that they don't care whether they win or lose? Maybe you are "man/woman" enough to go down and challenge them face to face? Make your accusations based upon your "observation" and see whether or not you get your @$$ kicked by a coach or a player?

Could it be that this team is simply not polished enough yet? Could the "smiles and giggles" indicate a confidence that the game isn't over until it's over?

Listen, I don't like to see our Shockers lose, and I'm sure most of you don't enjoy it either (unless you have an axe to grind with the staff), but unless a player or players show you a lack of effort or hustle, lay off them.

I spoke with a parent of one of the players the other night and his comment to me was "They don't have to win every game to please me, they just have to act like they want to!" Perhaps this is the approach "Shockerfan" everywhere should adapt this year.

Keep in mind there are very young players getting significant time and growing on the fly. It is easier for me to live with their mistakes than it is the mistakes of 3 and 4 year players, not to mention an experienced coaching staff (whether it is recruiting "uncoachable players", or not properly teaching/coaching "coachable players".)

While I am not enamored with the way the season has gone so far, there are signs of life! We might....just get hotter than hell and peak at the right time and make a run! Hope springs eternal in Shockerville! :goshocks:

[WuDrWu]

Do you seriously think "smiles and giggles" indicate that they don't care whether they win or lose?

Yeah, actually I do. And this isn't a testosterone contest Johnnie.

Successful WSU teams of the last 32 years that I've been a fan have routinely shown a confident, focused and sometimes even mean demeanor during the games.....rarely exhibiting a gregarious attitude. That would be saved for the Friends routes or post game, rain outs etc.

Does it mean they don't want to win? Of course not. Does it mean they might not be as focused and serious as their competition? I'd have to see the competition to compare, but last night I did, and I didn't like what I saw.

My struggle with the program is much more about the staff than the players, but I've seen little from the players that lead me to believe they are "all in" on the field and in preparation.

Good kids? Yes. Good students? You bet. Good representatives of WSU? From what I've seen, absolutely.

Fiery competitors that are laying it all out on the line every game? Not so much.

[SB Shock]

Fiery competitors that are laying it all out on the line every game? Not so much.

+1

I have seen Shockers teams that refused to lose, but those memories are starting to fade.

[Shirley Schmidt]

You guys need to lay off of Johnnie he is tied very closely to the program and is looking at the situation with rose colored glasses.

People with close ties, and I mean relatives of the players, should not be allowed to post on these boards because their judgment is skewed.

They mean well but do not have a clue.

[JohnnieBallgame]

Wow, aren't we painting with a broad brush? There are some "fiery competitors" on this team, maybe not all of them but they are there.

I'm not saying I disagree completely with all of the points, just pick your spots and choose the right targets!

Rose colored glasses? Are you serious? Connections to the program...limited! Life long Shocker fan, you bet! I'm not a late comer to your little party and I hate to lose as much as you do.

Will you be ready to celebrate success again, as much as you revel in the tough times? :roll:

[SB Shock]

Will you be ready to celebrate success again, as much as you revel in the tough times? :roll:

I know I will. One thing that shocker baseball has shown is you better enjoy the ride when you can because you may not know when you will get it again.

I remember when they expanded the tournament from 48 to 64 and the regional host from 8 to 16 - Kennedy was like wsu will be a lock to host every year. When was the last time wsu hosted a regional?

[WuDrWu]

4 years this june I think. Or was that just a super regional?

[SB Shock]

4 years this june I think. Or was that just a super regional?

I just looked it up. WSU last hosted a regional was in 2007. After this year they will have hosted 1 regional in 9 years.

Since the change in format to 16 regional format - 3 regional hostings in 12 years. Prior to that under the 8 regional format - 7 out 10 years hosted.

[WuDrWu]

I'm not defending where the program is today, not at all, but to talk about regional hosting in the context of the last 12 years vs the previous 10 years is to compare apples to oranges.


There were seasons that the NCAA would BEG teams to put in a regional bid.

BEG them to, so that they had enough to choose from for the tournament just to be put on.

Now, it's not unusual to see 40-50 bids. And a whole bunch of them will be competitive, if not substantially advantageous from a financial point of view, with as good or better facilities.

Simply put, Wichita State's financial and structural advantage that they enjoyed for so many seasons, is gone. And it's not coming back.

There are just too many players in the field now.

[SB Shock]

I'm not defending where the program is today, not at all, but to talk about regional hosting in the context of the last 12 years vs the previous 10 years is to compare apples to oranges.

I agree. WSU was competing on a national level then and now is struggling to compete at the MVC level. True apples and oranges differences.

There are just too many players in the field now.

Not really. If you look at the field that WSU is competing against for regionals has not really changed that much.

From 1990 to 1998 the Mid-West host sites were shared with 3 teams (OU, OSU and WSU). In general the mid-west only got 1 regional (2 years they got 2).

When they expanded the regional sites from 8 to 16, the Mid-west regional sites in general expanded to 2 sites also. These bids have been shared with a pool of mainly 4 teams (see below).

The years there have only been 1 mid-west host site, the other usual mid-west site has either went to a Big10 school or to a Texas school

Mid-West Hosts
2 Host sites - 6 years
3 Host sites - 1 year
1 Host sites - 5 years (2-B10, 3-Texas schools)

Overall, WSU has been competing with the following pools of teams for the 16 regional sites format

NU - 6
OU - 5
Ark - 4
WSU - 3
MO - 1
OSU -1

The reality is this is probably less of indictment of the WSU program today than how really good the WSU program was was on a national level between 1989-1998.

[shocker3]

I'm not defending where the program is today, not at all, but to talk about regional hosting in the context of the last 12 years vs the previous 10 years is to compare apples to oranges.

I agree. WSU was competing on a national level then and now is struggling to compete at the MVC level. True apples and oranges differences.

There are just too many players in the field now.

Not really. If you look at the field that WSU is competing against for regionals has not really changed that much.

From 1990 to 1998 the Mid-West host sites were shared with 3 teams (OU, OSU and WSU). In general the mid-west only got 1 regional (2 years they got 2).

When they expanded the regional sites from 8 to 16, the Mid-west regional sites in general expanded to 2 sites also. These bids have been shared with a pool of mainly 4 teams (see below).

The years there have only been 1 mid-west host site, the other usual mid-west site has either went to a Big10 school or to a Texas school

Mid-West Hosts
2 Host sites - 6 years
3 Host sites - 1 year
1 Host sites - 5 years (2-B10, 3-Texas schools)

Overall, WSU has been competing with the following pools of teams for the 16 regional sites format

NU - 6
OU - 5
Ark - 4
WSU - 3
MO - 1
OSU -1

The reality is this is probably less of indictment of the WSU program today than how really good the WSU program was was on a national level between 1989-1998.

What surprises me the most about that list is that OSU has only hosted once since the ncaa expanded to 16 teams. It looks like UNL and Arkansas have been basically eating up the bids that used to go to WSU and OSU.