Who's to say Cessna and HBC management don't already have their foot half way in the door with other communities and just waiting for the union to make it an easy decision? In the back of their minds they would like a good reason to turn down these incentive-laiden offers from dixie land.
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Originally posted by BostonWuWho's to say Cessna and HBC management don't already have their foot half way in the door with other communities and just waiting for the union to make it an easy decision? In the back of their minds they would like a good reason to turn down these incentive-laiden offers from dixie land.
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I find it interesting that the posters here are laying these companys' problems at the feet of the union. The companys agreed to, and signed off the contracts that have gotten them into their current predicament. Doing so was their decision. Furthermore, Textron has siphoned a lot of money off Cessna during general aviation boom periods and for the company to abandon operations in Wichita when Wichita needs the company is ... well ... typical big business.
I agree the current economy may dictate wage and benefit freezes or cutbacks, but I will GUARANTEE the straits are not as dire as these companies want the public to believe. The ecomonic problems in the US are rooted in the greed of big business. Why is it so easy to blame the working class for wanting a little of the wealth?
COLA clauses typically have very high thresholds before they take affect and do not typically automatically reflect across the board fluctuations in the CPI. While I do not know the details of these specific contract proposals, believing there will be a "bonus" realized due to the COLA is probably not factual.
The unions be damned, but I have worked in the aircraft industry for 25 years and I haven't seen a large aircraft manufacturing company here go belly-up yet. The ecomonic problems in the US are rooted in the greed of big business. Why is it so easy to blame the working class for wanting a little of the wealth.
--'85.Basketball Season Tix since '77-78 . . . . . . Baseball Season Tix since '88
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Please define "big business greed".
At what point does it cease being fair business and become "greed"?
As a stockholder, I give up my money, in hopes of a return on my investment. There is NO promise I will ever see a penny. A worker outlays nothing, and gets a check for his daily efforts.
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Originally posted by Shocker85I find it interesting that the posters here are laying these companys' problems at the feet of the union. The companys agreed to, and signed off the contracts that have gotten them into their current predicament. Doing so was their decision. -'85.
I grant you the old contract is worn by both the union and the company. That's the old contract.
Today is a different set of circumstances. You say you want the workers to share in the wealth. Are you cool with the workers sharing in the loss as well? Perhaps they will work for nothing, they don't even have to give money back, when the company loses money. Would that be ok?
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Foreclosures are up in SW Wichita. I fear that they will be headed even higher.
Market forces should dictate supply and demand...even for labor. Corporate greed? Give me a break. If you are making payroll and able to pay your taxes you should be thankful in this climate. It seems like more and more people think that they are owed something from somebody because they are breathing. I am sick of the entitlement mentality and our hand out society is killing this country.
Get off your a$$ and do something to be productive....anything.
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Originally posted by Shocker85The ecomonic problems in the US are rooted in the greed of big business. Why is it so easy to blame the working class for wanting a little of the wealth.
--'85.
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Originally posted by WuDrWuPlease define "big business greed".
Originally posted by WuDrWuAt what point does it cease being fair business and become "greed"?
Originally posted by WuDrWuAs a stockholder, I give up my money, in hopes of a return on my investment. There is NO promise I will ever see a penny. A worker outlays nothing, and gets a check for his daily efforts.
One of the problems in the world today is company's desire to please the stockholders. Turn it the other way - all the stockholder has invested is money. No blood, sweat, or tears.
-'85.Basketball Season Tix since '77-78 . . . . . . Baseball Season Tix since '88
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When someone can walk into their manager's or a VP's office and legitimately say, "this company will do worse without my ability/expertise/knowledge/talent", then by all means they should, and will, share in the wealth because they have value that isn't easily replaceable. But I suspect most union workers can be replaced with a trainee at relatively little cost. Those workers should not expect to get paid above the market value of their job.
Since "bubble" is such a buzzword nowadays, I think we're going to see the union labor bubble burst sometime in the not too distant future. The global market will make it a necessity. But I'm not sure how political forces will factor in, and we all know they will.
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The average union worker - who is, in most cases, a high school graduate performing manual labor fitting of any able-bodied human on the planet - is not "working class", they are, by most economists and sociologists definition, upper middle class. Don't believe me? Look it up.
You know who otherwise resides in that socio-eonomic level? Educated people, business owners, and others who have had to do something notable with their lives to separate themselves from the pack after high school.
Now tell me again, who's greedy? The corporation for returning what in most cases is a <5% profit, or marginally-skilled union laborers wanting to pretend to be something they're not?
What is bringing down our economy is people wanting a standard of living not fitting to their circumstances. Unions are a primary player in regard.
For this country to ever regain prosperity again, unions will need to weaken or go away all-together. There's absolutely nothing patriotic or American about unions. They all trace their roots back to communistic and socialistic origins. Again, don't believe me? Google is your friend.
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Originally posted by RoyalShock....I think we're going to see the union labor bubble burst sometime in the not too distant future. The global market will make it a necessity. But I'm not sure how political forces will factor in, and we all know they will.
There was a time when unions were necessary and noble organizations. I’m afraid that, in the United States, that was some time ago.
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Originally posted by Shocker85Originally posted by WuDrWuPlease define "big business greed".
2) Isn't it fair that when your union leadership browbeats management to give more when they have nothing left to give, that you would be treated in a similar fashion?
Oh and by the way, that "insane drive for productivity and profitability" has defined almost every job I've ever had, so welcome to the real world."Don't measure yourself by what you have accomplished, but by what you should accomplish with your ability."
-John Wooden
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Some union workers need to experience life as a sole proprietor or partner where if you don't bust your butt every day, you lose and your family loses. That's when you deserve to share in the profits, not when some contract says you automatically get a raise based on some formula.
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Originally posted by ISASOSome union workers need to experience life as a sole proprietor or partner where if you don't bust your butt every day, you lose and your family loses. That's when you deserve to share in the profits, not when some contract says you automatically get a raise based on some formula."You Just Want to Slap The #### Outta Some People"
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Originally posted by ISASOSome union workers need to experience life as a sole proprietor or partner where if you don't bust your butt every day, you lose and your family loses. That's when you deserve to share in the profits, not when some contract says you automatically get a raise based on some formula.
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