It appears as if the right is just falling apart.

[RoyalShock]

More thoughts on point two put in terms of Mr. Codevilla's recent piece: The "Ruling Class" is largely group 1 (the Dems). Group 2 (establishment Repubs) are either "secretly" in the Ruling Class (Dem in GOP clothing), or Ruling Class wannabes.

If group 3 (conservatives) can create an obvious, wide gap between them and the others, maybe they can fully expose the Ruling Class, wake up a few more in the Country Class and get things really turned around.

My fear, however, is this is a temporary pendulum swing back to the middle and after 4-6 years of minor federal gridlock, things will push back to the left after they regroup.

[Maggie]

Royal - Codevilla's essay was thought provoking; frankly I am still digesting it (for those of you who have not taken the time to read it, you should – it is long but well worth the time).

I think you are correct that the “Country Class”, as Codevilla puts it (I’m not sure I like the title), can affect change – but it is going to be very difficult. That change is going to take time and the right (no pun intended) leaders need to be put in place within the Republican Party – they need to get their house in order first. These leaders are going to need the support of an active citizenry because they will have to deal with not only those on the Left but elements of the establishment Republican Party. My hope is that many of those who are relatively new to politics continue to participate for the long haul. You are quite correct to be “concerned” about the “pendulum” of political discussion – there is always an ebb and flow. Just remember, the “fight” if you want to call it that will never be “won” nor should it be, I suppose.

One thing that I think must be taken into consideration is that a “conservative” on the East Coast (Gov. Christie is an example; Sen. Scott Brown is an example) and one from Middle America will be slightly different animals. And that is ok and in fact it should be encouraged.

There is a gap – and it is a wide fundamental gap between the vision of the Left and Right – healthcare is a prime example; positive vs. negative rights is an example. The visions start from different premises. The gift President Obama and the current Congress gave the Right was exposing that gap themselves because of their own hubris and the fact that they perceived a mandate that was not there (they, in many cases, no longer felt the need to couch their agenda in clever euphemisms).

Let’s continue to have that discussion – and as humbly as possible I submit that if the best the Left has to offer is represented by those who participated in that Journolist mess – I, for one, am not exactly quaking in my stylish yet affordable shoes.

[1979Shocker]

You and your lefty buddies are grasping at straws. Do your damage now, because real Americans are going to take back our country.

Are you saying that people on the left or those that have different opinions aren't real Americans? That sounds like what Sarah Palin or Michelle Bachmann would say.

[RoyalShock]

You and your lefty buddies are grasping at straws. Do your damage now, because real Americans are going to take back our country.

Are you saying that people on the left or those that have different opinions aren't real Americans? That sounds like what Sarah Palin or Michelle Bachmann would say.

Not to speak for Doc, but in my view being "American" has little to do with one's claim to be a U.S. citizen and much to do with one's embrace of freedom and liberty and by extension of living in the U.S., the Constitution.

America is an ideal, in my most humble opinion, of course. ;)

[Maggie]

America is an ideal, in my most humble opinion, of course. ;)

But will never be, can never be, utopia.

[RoyalShock]

America is an ideal, in my most humble opinion, of course. ;)

But will never be, can never be, utopia.

Agreed. Utopia in a human context is unattainable.

[WuDrWu]

You and your lefty buddies are grasping at straws. Do your damage now, because real Americans are going to take back our country.

Are you saying that people on the left or those that have different opinions aren't real Americans? That sounds like what Sarah Palin or Michelle Bachmann would say.

Not to speak for Doc, but in my view being "American" has little to do with one's claim to be a U.S. citizen and much to do with one's embrace of freedom and liberty and by extension of living in the U.S., the Constitution.

America is an ideal, in my most humble opinion, of course. ;)

Royal can speak for me anytime, but to answer your question, those that don't believe in freedom, liberty and the defense of the Constitution are not real Americans in my eyes.

It is an expression. I am not calling for their deaths. The principles, beliefs and values upon which this country was founded have been under a vicious attack for far too long from many factions. It's past time to head in the other direction. What made this country great hopefully will make her great again.

[ISASO]

You and your lefty buddies are grasping at straws. Do your damage now, because real Americans are going to take back our country.

Are you saying that people on the left or those that have different opinions aren't real Americans? That sounds like what Sarah Palin or Michelle Bachmann would say.

Would a real American say that they had never been proud of their country until a particular day in their early 40's?

Would a real American hide their college papers from voters?

Would a real American provide a birth certificate without a doctor's signature on it?

Would a real American attend a racist preachers church for 20 years and then claim he never heard any troubling comments in those 20 years?

Sure, different opinions are allowed, it's what caused the founding of this nation. But when those opinions and actions are clearly subversive, that's where you have to draw the line.

[rjl]

Ahem.

If any of you are bewildered as to why you lost yesterday. Wondering how it could be. "Can't everyone see what you are seeing?" "Don't they feel what you feel?"

Then look no further than this forum: you all have surrounded yourself with like-minded people, posting in a forum likely to elicit pats on the back for even the most delusional tidbit, so long as it's anti-left or anti-Obama; you watch Fox News and Fox News only, because it's "the #1 rated news channel" and the "liberal media is just to biased"; you live in Wichita and surround yourself with likeminded conservatives at all your parties, luncheons, and get-togethers; and you pay attention to only the studies that result in what you want them to say, the polls that result in what you want the people to feel, the lives of only those you think you care about.

But by only listening to thoughts you know you will like and only speaking where you know you will find agreement, you have become afraid to challenge yourself in any real way and have thus become weak in your thoughts. Why do you believe what you believe? is it something right to believe in? Do you consider alternatives? I see it here all the time: I post something from my point of view, and the ensuing conversation goes almost immediately to attacking my character because you guys don't know how to attack the content of the thought because you don't know how to defend your own. Look at this thread. Childish notions of what a "real American" is. Don't you know how embarrassing that is?

You have feared new outside thought and burrowed into the far right for so long that even a centrist notion hits your head as if it were fired from the "liberal" howitzer cannon. So when reality hits you in the face, and you realize that the national populous doesn't feel what you feel or think what you think, and you wonder why... this is why. I challenge you all to leave this forum for a while. Go look at the world. Look at what people think. Talk to people from opposing points of view on a real, communicative basis. Watch different news outlets. Appreciate opposing points of view. Then come back to this forum, read what has been posted here, and tell me if you don't feel the least bit disgusted.

Your party started falling apart more than two years ago and you didn't even know it because you let a delusional contingent take it over, and you did it willingly. I dare say that if Lincoln, Eisenhower, or Teddy Roosevelt were alive today, they would have voted for Obama out of disgust over what their once proud party has become.

[SB Shock]

Democrats have a 2 to 1 advantage in money. That is why Joe "Bite Me" Biden came out taunting - money rules. There will be no conservative tsunami like there was '96. Mainly because the Republican party is devoid of any real conservative leadership. There is no Reagan. There is no Gingrich.

Frankly It is game over for our nation - were past the breaking point - fiscally and morally. Very tough days our coming.

I think 2 years later my clarity is still spot on.

[WuDrWu]

Ahem.

If any of you are bewildered as to why you lost yesterday. Wondering how it could be. "Can't everyone see what you are seeing?" "Don't they feel what you feel?"

Then look no further than this forum: you all have surrounded yourself with like-minded people, posting in a forum likely to elicit pats on the back for even the most delusional tidbit, so long as it's anti-left or anti-Obama; you watch Fox News and Fox News only, because it's "the #1 rated news channel" and the "liberal media is just to biased"; you live in Wichita and surround yourself with likeminded conservatives at all your parties, luncheons, and get-togethers; and you pay attention to only the studies that result in what you want them to say, the polls that result in what you want the people to feel, the lives of only those you think you care about.

But by only listening to thoughts you know you will like and only speaking where you know you will find agreement, you have become afraid to challenge yourself in any real way and have thus become weak in your thoughts. Why do you believe what you believe? is it something right to believe in? Do you consider alternatives? I see it here all the time: I post something from my point of view, and the ensuing conversation goes almost immediately to attacking my character because you guys don't know how to attack the content of the thought because you don't know how to defend your own. Look at this thread. Childish notions of what a "real American" is. Don't you know how embarrassing that is?

You have feared new outside thought and burrowed into the far right for so long that even a centrist notion hits your head as if it were fired from the "liberal" howitzer cannon. So when reality hits you in the face, and you realize that the national populous doesn't feel what you feel or think what you think, and you wonder why... this is why. I challenge you all to leave this forum for a while. Go look at the world. Look at what people think. Talk to people from opposing points of view on a real, communicative basis. Watch different news outlets. Appreciate opposing points of view. Then come back to this forum, read what has been posted here, and tell me if you don't feel the least bit disgusted.

Your party started falling apart more than two years ago and you didn't even know it because you let a delusional contingent take it over, and you did it willingly. I dare say that if Lincoln, Eisenhower, or Teddy Roosevelt were alive today, they would have voted for Obama out of disgust over what their once proud party has become.

The right path is rarely the easy one. I concede that I was wrong. The GOP lacks good leadership and a well orchestrated plan but the facts are this: There are far more stupid people that vote, like you, that are simply misinformed, handicapped or believe in things that are wrong. Our society is falling apart. Ambulance chasers like you are driving the short bus full of people dying to cash someone else's check. Good for you. You won.

Please don't complain when in 10-20 years, when there is a terrible shortage of doctors because there is little incentive to be one, you must wait months to see a doctor, then longer to have procedures done, IF it's approved.

Please don't complain when China calls and says they want their money. You cannot have anymore of mine. Mine is leaving the country.

Please don't complain when oil and gas prices skyrocket. Green energy is right around the corner.

Please don't complain when some worthless 27 year old professional student sideswipes your nephew on vacation in Colorado or Washington while he's high on weed. I will ski and vacation elsewhere. In fact I canceled my reservations for Breckenridge this morning.

And please don't complain when benefits are cut, across the board and you find you can't live on social security, welfare or whatever government to which you are attached.

Revel in your victory. All of your groups should celebrate by slaughtering as many unborn children as you can except those poor minority single woman whom can continue to grow your ever popular base with more welfare babies, hand out condoms to all 12 year olds so their parents whom you don't think are as smart as you, can add to the celebratory groups 1 and 2. Call you parents or grandparents and wish them well....their usefulness in your great society is rapidly shrinking so thank them for their sacrifice that allows you to be the complete ass you are before Washington encourages them to go quietly into the night. You are your other 419 friends can go **** yourselves. The rest of us will find a way, because THAT is the American spirit that you and your merry band of crack heads will never know. Admittedly, I don't know what that path is, but with His help, I trust we'll find it.

Just do me a favor and don't follow, k?

[Kung Wu]

Kinda funny. When Reagan won, the post analysis was that Democrats were doomed and falling apart. When Bush won the post analysis was "Democrats are doomed and falling apart". When Clinton won the post analysis was "Republicans are doomed and falling apart". When Bush won the post analysis was "Democrats are doomed and falling apart". When Obama won the post analysis was "Republicans are doomed and falling apart".

[Kung Wu]

Ahem.

If any of you are bewildered as to why you lost yesterday. Wondering how it could be. "Can't everyone see what you are seeing?" "Don't they feel what you feel?"

Then look no further than this forum: you all have surrounded yourself with like-minded people, posting in a forum likely to elicit pats on the back for even the most delusional tidbit, so long as it's anti-left or anti-Obama; you watch Fox News and Fox News only, because it's "the #1 rated news channel" and the "liberal media is just to biased"; you live in Wichita and surround yourself with likeminded conservatives at all your parties, luncheons, and get-togethers; and you pay attention to only the studies that result in what you want them to say, the polls that result in what you want the people to feel, the lives of only those you think you care about.

But by only listening to thoughts you know you will like and only speaking where you know you will find agreement, you have become afraid to challenge yourself in any real way and have thus become weak in your thoughts. Why do you believe what you believe? is it something right to believe in? Do you consider alternatives? I see it here all the time: I post something from my point of view, and the ensuing conversation goes almost immediately to attacking my character because you guys don't know how to attack the content of the thought because you don't know how to defend your own. Look at this thread. Childish notions of what a "real American" is. Don't you know how embarrassing that is?

You have feared new outside thought and burrowed into the far right for so long that even a centrist notion hits your head as if it were fired from the "liberal" howitzer cannon. So when reality hits you in the face, and you realize that the national populous doesn't feel what you feel or think what you think, and you wonder why... this is why. I challenge you all to leave this forum for a while. Go look at the world. Look at what people think. Talk to people from opposing points of view on a real, communicative basis. Watch different news outlets. Appreciate opposing points of view. Then come back to this forum, read what has been posted here, and tell me if you don't feel the least bit disgusted.

Your party started falling apart more than two years ago and you didn't even know it because you let a delusional contingent take it over, and you did it willingly. I dare say that if Lincoln, Eisenhower, or Teddy Roosevelt were alive today, they would have voted for Obama out of disgust over what their once proud party has become.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you won; you get to gloat. And I'll admit your good at it too. To the victor the spoils!

[rrshock]

It comes down to the GOP didn't have the right guy. I'm a Republican but couldn't stomach Romney. I really hoped that the GOP would get control of congress. We are now looking at 4other years of deadlock unless everyone in D.C. pulls their heads out and fixes the problems.

[GoShockers89]

Eh, life goes on. Talk radio and the far right will flip out and act like the predicted Mayan Armageddon on December 21 would be a sweet release from the grips of socialism. The current gridlock, however, will keep anything from getting accomplished either way in the next 2 years and the economy will continue a sluggish "recovery" unless both parties steer us off the fiscal cliff later this year.

In reality, Republicans will slug out a fight over the next decade that the Pat Robertson-era culture warriors are sure to lose because their believers are dying off and not being replaced by young people in adequate numbers (much like our baseball fanbase). The GOP is currently a loser on almost every social issue and needs to de-emphasize the influence that those matters carry within the Party. Stick to lowering government spending, fiscal responsibility, low taxes, and strong national defense.

Ditch the ridiculous anti-gay campaign (it's conclusively a failure at the national level). It strongly parallels the opposition within the Democratic party to the 1964 Civil Rights Act- the obstinate ones will be forced to the fringe of the party, be overrepresented by elderly and geographically isolated members, and will slowly fall apart as the younger generation accepts reality and moves on. This is a big sticking point that prevents a huge number of socially moderate, fiscally conservative young people from voting republican.

Get on board with legalizing marijuana and steal this issue from the Dems. This would represent an ENORMOUS revenue windfall (taxing and regulating the product) while simultaneously cutting government spending in a huge way (law enforcement, jail, and prosecution/court expenses). The old farts who adamantly oppose this are almost universally 55+ and are remnants of the faction who took the "war on drugs" line in the 80s hook, line and sinker even though their generation was the biggest group of substance abusers in world history. They will die off in the next quarter century- at some point in that time the boomer influence will wane enough that this inevitably gets legalized. I want my party on the right side of it when it happens. It's no less moral than alcohol consumption being legal and is considerably less dangerous in terms of sensory impairment.

These two changes, combined with continued focus on conservative fiscal principles, is how the party pivots back to prominence much like the Democrats did with Clinton in 1992 when they finally grew the nuts to tell the Jesse Jackson/aging McGovernites to stfu and let their party become electable again.