Who will run in 2012

[RoyalShock]

I think Paul is the only candidate who can pull in both independents and unsatisfied Obama voters. Add that to the GOP base that will get behind whoever wins the primary and you have the reason why the latest CNN poll shows Paul with the best chance to beat Obama in the general.

That said, if Paul is not a candidate who represents your positions and values, support and vote for the guy (or gal) who does.

If we get deeper into the primary and polls continue to show Paul with the best chance in the general, and suddenly people abandon the "practical" voting philosophy that is advocated every four years, I will find it very interesting (and hypocritical).

[Maggie]

I am going to be blunt – I have posted in this forum long enough that my values, principals, and positions should not be a mystery. You are wrong about Ron Paul, Royal. He has a part to play – but it is not and should not be POTUS.

Listen - what is common for me, with regard to Ron Paul is simply this: I generally agree with him for about the first sentence of everything he says. Audit the Fed? Sure, sign me up that is probably a good idea. Oh, wait, gold standard? Ok, right but that's not gonna work. Stop interventionist wars? Sure, I guess. Wait, what was that about Zionism? Ok, I want off the bus.

The fact of the matter is, Ron Paul is dead in the water and will never win a general election, much less the GOP primary. Frankly, I have found some of his supporters every bit as creepy as the Obama-is-my-savior crowd.

I'm all for conservative libertarianism, but if Ron Paul insists on being the face of that movement…

P.S. I don’t think you will be ever be able to argue that I am a hypocrite – even if your preferred scenario comes to pass.

[RoyalShock]

It's one thing if you simply don't believe he can win the general election. You would get a pass on the hypocrite label. But pragmatism was rampant on this board and everywhere else. You were at least a mild proponent of approaching the last POTUS election from a pragmatic standpoint. You and I disagreed on who my vote should have gone for in the general. But at least you respected my choice to stick to my values. The same can't be said for a lot of people (in general, not here on SN).

We will just have to agree to disagree on Paul's "part to play". I simply don't think an establishment politician is going to accomplish a significant change of culture in Washington.

Huckabee, Santorum, Pawlenty, Gingerich, Romney and Palin are all either already establishment pols or talk like them.

I will reserve judgement on Cain. I just don't like that he has no elective experience. We have no way to know if he can be "bought" or controlled.

[Maggie]

A pass? Thanks but I don’t need one. Are you using pragmatism as a pejorative? Just curious.

Because I believe you are mistaken about Ron Paul doesn’t mean I don’t respect your opinion or recognize Paul’s appeal (his son, by the way, I tolerate much easier). I think Ron Paul says and believes some good things but I don’t believe he will win the GOP primary much less a general election. If Paul happened to win the GOP nomination – Obama would have a field day – I know I could on his behalf. He would win in a landslide – the fellow can’t do much else but he can run a campaign.

Why? Because many of Paul’s views are “extreme”, unrealistic, and often leave me with the thought that he should be writing a manifesto; and that is why I will never be in his corner. He takes a bridge too far more often than not. Ron Paul, and some of his supporters, shut themselves off from reality (and common sense) – they become what they accuse the Left of being. And that to me is unacceptable.

There is no perfect vehicle right now in the GOP field – including Cain (he has no chance either). And guess what? There won’t be.

[RoyalShock]

Pragmatism as a pejorative? Perhaps. 'pends on your perspective. Alliteration aside, no, I'm not. Pragmatism is what it is. I don't fashion myself as one but understand why others do. Personal choice. But I will call out those who do subscribe if, when it works against them, they abandon it.

I didn't say you did not respect my choice/views of Paul. In fact, I said the opposite:

But at least you respected my choice to stick to my values.

I happen to like Paul's extreme views. Non-extreme views won't get the country off its current path, IMO. It's like the recently passed budget. Cutting millions here and there from already unnecessary departments and programs is business as usual. It's going to take extreme measures to balance the budget and knock down the debt.

If it's going to take an extremist to get things fixed, give me the strict, unabashed Constitutionalist with the consistent voting record and message. The other side of the extremist spectrum - at least as far as what is tolerated in America - is our current president. You know, the guy with the record of voting "present", which is preferable to what he's doing now!

[Maggie]

To begin with, I was simply curious about your intended usage of the word pragmatism. I was interested in your intention, interested in clarity.

Again you are mistaken about it being necessary for an “extremist” to come to power to get things “fixed”. I will, for the moment, continue to bash my head against the fictional wall – Ron Paul’s views don’t solve matters, not even close to it. But he should be part of the conversation, if only, because he helps drive that conversation (domestically, anyway) in the right direction.

Maybe you are right, Obama and Paul are polar opposites. Obama, recently and famously, (in his normal I, me trope) claimed credit for the death of OBL while at the same time failing to acknowledge the methods (which, apparently were, an anathema to him) that gave rise to that outcome, what of Paul’s theories – does he or any of his followers consider the implications? No, he doesn’t – at least to my knowledge.

A mind shut down is just that....

[SubGod22]

Newt Gingrich to Enter Presidential Race This doesn't really surprise anyone.

[SubGod22]

Trump Declines to Run for President This doesn't surprise me at all.

[SubGod22]

Pawlenty Touts Fiscal Strengths; Says Obama Lacks Courage

In advance of his announcement rally in Des Moines, Iowa Monday, former Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty hit a few broadcast morning shows to make his case for why he should be the Republican Party's presidential nominee in 2012.

In each appearance he touted his record on fiscal matters saying it proves that he's ready to face exploding deficits in Washington.

"I know how to balance budgets. I know how to tackle spending. I know how to get economies growing," Pawlenty told CBS. "And in my state, we led the way back under difficult circumstances. It's a very liberal state. And if you can do it there, you can do it anywhere."

[pinstripers]

Allen West will not run. Chris Christy will not run. Newt cannot win. Neither can Mitt or the two women. Pawlenty is not exciting. That leaves us with Herman. Can he actually beat BHO? Rick Perry, the sitting gov of Texas might be the guy.

[ABC]

Ron Paul will never be the GOP nominee.

[1979Shocker]

Allen West will not run. Chris Christy will not run. Newt cannot win. Neither can Mitt or the two women. Pawlenty is not exciting. That leaves us with Herman. Can he actually beat BHO? Rick Perry, the sitting gov of Texas might be the guy.

Rick Perry won't be the guy.

Texas Gov. Rick Perry for President in 2012? Only 4% of Texas Republicans would support him: poll

The Lone Star State has a message for its governor, Rick Perry: Don't mess with Texas, at least when it comes to running for President.

Only 4% of Texas Republicans say they'd vote for Perry if he were to make a bid for the Oval Office, a new University of Texas/Texas Tribune poll shows.

[SubGod22]

Bachmann Busts Up GOP Race

Michele Bachmann is now considered a serious contender for the presidency, and that’s not entirely a good thing for her campaign.

Bachmann has vaulted into second place in the Republican race with polls consistently showing her as the top choice of between 15 and 20 percent of Republicans nationally, a pretty stout number in a splintered field.

The latest Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll is indicative – Bachmann snatches 16 percent of support compared to the 3 percent from a month ago. While frontrunner Mitt Romney is still cruising with 30 percent, the rapid rise of Bachmann has certainly roiled the rest of the field.

Compared to those candidates once considered serious contenders like Tim Pawlenty, who tied the seemingly unelectable Jon Huntsman for last place in the Journal poll with 2 percent, Bachmann looks like a juggernaut.

But her success has also opened the door to increasing scrutiny of her career, personal life and even her health. Reporters don’t have time to trawl through the careers and lives of also-rans, but contenders get both barrels. That Bachmann has been an object of alternating contempt and ridicule by American liberals for many years only intensifies the effect in her case.

[martymoose]

It's fun looking back at posts from 2 years ago...all the people who didn't think Palin was a whack job...change your mind yet? ROFL!

Thank God she's not running for the GOP bid. That said Michele Bachmann looks like she could be a legitimate contender and not a pretty face airhead like Palin. It'll be fun to watch what happens.

[shock]

Martymoose, its a shame that you believe all that crap the media is spoon feeding everyone. They successfully ruined Palin the same way they ruined Dan Quayle. Both of them would have made great Presidents, both were targeted and ruined by the media, who got idiots like you to believe them. Have you read Palin's books? I'm guessing not. The thing people don't realize is that that the media as a whole is so left leaning that when Fox presents the facts straight up it makes them look like right wing nuts. The media is out to make money. What is the best way to make money? Please the consumer. Americans are so spoiled that they don't want to be told no. So when liberals want to wipe the Americans asses and pay for medicare and medicaid and healthcare and conservative step up and say no the media is going to blast them and make the liberals look good and conservatives look bad. Medicare and medicaid are good ideas, but this country does not have the money to pay for it. Those are the facts. And another thing. Conservatives are not looking to cut medicare and medicaid from the people that need it now. But my generation does not need it. College kids have years to save on their own. So those commercials with old people are just left wing propaganda to make conservative look bad. There is no reason to cut it for seniors. I got a little off topic but its just a pet peeve that ties into my original arguement. This country is going down the tubes with the media leading the way and blind idiots right behind. And taking money from those who have earned it is not going to fix it. Every body