Las Vegas Terror Attack

[Play Angry]

Bump stocks might end up being banned after this is all over with. However you do not need a modified stock to bump fire an AR. Bump firing can be done with an unmodified rifle relatively easily. You would suffer a significant accuracy loss, but that wouldn't matter much if your intent was to hose down a large crowd like the Vegas shooter.

Should bump firing be permitted then?

I'm not arguing that making it illegal would prevent the rare and determined asshole from making the mods himself or buying through the black market. I am asking whether firearms which are functionally equivalent to a Tommy gun should be subject to the same restrictions as their fully automatic kin.

I am sure I'm coming off abrasively but I am open to persuasion if there is a good counterargument.

[WheatShock]

Should bump firing be permitted then?

I'm not arguing that making it illegal would prevent the rare and determined asshole from making the mods himself or buying through the black market. I am asking whether firearms which are functionally equivalent to a Tommy gun should be subject to the same restrictions as their fully automatic kin.

I am sure I'm coming off abrasively but I am open to persuasion if there is a good counterargument.

I don't think its realistic to try and ban bump firing. I might be able to get behind banning modified stocks that make it easier to do.

There are NO mods required to bump fire a semi automatic weapon, all that is required is a different firing technique. The mods that exist simply make it easier and safer for the shooter. To effectively ban bump firing you would have to ban semi auto weapons which isn't going to fly. Like others have pointed out the degradation in accuracy makes bump firing useful only for demonstrations or for situations like Vegas where accuracy is not important to the shooter and in that case the shooter won't care if its banned or not.

[Play Angry]

I don't think its realistic to try and ban bump firing. I might be able to get behind banning modified stocks that make it easier to do.

There are NO mods required to bump fire a semi automatic weapon, all that is required is a different firing technique. The mods that exist simply make it easier and safer for the shooter. To effectively ban bump firing you would have to ban semi auto weapons which isn't going to fly. Like others have pointed out the degradation in accuracy makes bump firing useful only for demonstrations or for situations like Vegas where accuracy is not important to the shooter and in that case the shooter won't care if its banned or not.

Eh, just because someone can still do it without the mods does not mean that there is no incentive to proscribe indiscriminate fire except under narrow exceptions. You can very easily do that with no impact on the availability of semi-automatics - of course, people determined to misuse their firearm and break the law will still do so, but I don't think anyone suggests that isn't the case.

Certain mods do appear to significantly enhance the rate per second and, as you said, the accuracy. I do not understand why those are not restricted when they achieve the same result as weapons which are generally unavailable to Joe Public for good reason.

[rrshock]

Eh, just because someone can still do it without the mods does not mean that there is no incentive to proscribe indiscriminate fire except under narrow exceptions. You can very easily do that with no impact on the availability of semi-automatics - of course, people determined to misuse their firearm and break the law will still do so, but I don't think anyone suggests that isn't the case.

Certain mods do appear to significantly enhance the rate per second and, as you said, the accuracy. I do not understand why those are not restricted when they achieve the same result as weapons which are generally unavailable to Joe Public for good reason.

Are you referring to the hand crank mods, and trigger mods?

Problem is, there are tons of them out there already. Taking them off the market will only make them harder to get.

I am sure there will be serious discussions of taking certain things off the market, but they wont be disappearing anytime soon.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

Unfortunately I was being serious. I agree, there are already many, many limitations and I feel all of those are unconstitutional. I understand that 99.9% of even NRA members do not believe in unfettered access to machine guns or bazookas, but isn't that exactly what the constitution allows for?

I am not opposed to closing loopholes but I think you have to be VERY careful because almost any law would likely be considered infringing on a persons right to keep and bear arms.

You didn't fail at all. It is an issue I struggle with because I think the 2nd amendment is crystal clear, but I also understand the desire to limit automatic weapons.

For perspective, take a look at the first amendment, which expressly forbids Congress from making laws abridging the freedom of speech. However, libel and slander laws do limit the freedom of speech and have been upheld as Constitutional. In a classic example, the Supreme Court has ruled yelling "fire" in a crowded movie theater is not freedom of speech, and the first amendment does not protect speech that puts others in danger.

For whatever reason, interpretation of the second amendment has been a more dicey legal and political endeavor, where some interpret it literally but do not extend that literal interpretation to the other amendments.

[Dan]

Functionally, there is no reason to use a bump stock, except in this type of instance. The accuracy isnt good and why wpuld you want to blow through 30+ rounds in no time.

Im a huge gun supporter, but I too think that it might be time to talk about the legal add ons that semi autos dont need.

I fired a gun with a bump stock. It's a toy really, you are right there is no need for it in a real life application.

[wufan]

I understand that modifications by criminals won't stop just because a law is passed, but I still think they are good laws. I do not want a fully auto weapon for defense as it would likely cause unnecessary carnage.

For the first time ever, I would consider banning pistol grips on rifles, as that would functionally stop the rapid trigger rate.

[SHOCKvalue]

I fired a gun with a bump stock. It's a toy really, you are right there is no need for it in a real life application.

AR's are toys for nearly everyone that buys them. Gun guy is really no different than motorcycle guy, boat guy, watch guy, etc.

[WheatShock]

I understand that modifications by criminals won't stop just because a law is passed, but I still think they are good laws. I do not want a fully auto weapon for defense as it would likely cause unnecessary carnage.

For the first time ever, I would consider banning pistol grips on rifles, as that would functionally stop the rapid trigger rate.

A pistol grip has no effect on whether or not you can bump fire. Bump firing is accomplished (on an unmodified weapon) by holding forward pressure with the nontrigger hand while keeping your finger stuck through the trigger guard. The opposing forces of recoil and forward pressure rock the weapon back and forth allowing a very high rate of fire. The design of the stock doesn't matter that much because you aren't holding it in many cases.

Check youtube for someone bump firing an SKS if you would like a visual reference.

[SB Shock]

So far reporting at least 20 dead,100wounded at the Mandalay Bay resort. It not clear if it is domestic terror or ISIS lone wolf.

I think there is much more of chance that this guy is ANTIFA than ISIS.

[pinstripers]

Make machine guns illegal and make killing people illegal.

[rrshock]

I think there is much more of chance that this guy is ANTIFA than ISIS.

That was my initial thought. I have nonclue if that picture of him at an anti trump rally is real or not. If it is, that could paint a picture for sure.

[rrshock]

Make machine guns illegal and make killing people illegal.

What a concept.....

[Play Angry]

That was my initial thought. I have nonclue if that picture of him at an anti trump rally is real or not. If it is, that could paint a picture for sure.

Fake, along with the reports of recent conversion to Islam and six-figure donations to Hillary's campaign. Facebook is the worst.

No doubt there are similar claims of affiliation with the KKK, etc.

Dude seems like a pretty blank slate so far based on what's been confirmed.

[wufan]

A pistol grip has no effect on whether or not you can bump fire. Bump firing is accomplished (on an unmodified weapon) by holding forward pressure with the nontrigger hand while keeping your finger stuck through the trigger guard. The opposing forces of recoil and forward pressure rock the weapon back and forth allowing a very high rate of fire. The design of the stock doesn't matter that much because you aren't holding it in many cases.

Check youtube for someone bump firing an SKS if you would like a visual reference.

Thanks for that!