Does race matter?

[wufan]

Some out here are making this way more complex than it needs to be. Making things overly complex is sometimes done to deflect a conversation. Let me try two examples that pretty much bring it home.

If you need a transfusion, does the race of the donor matter? If so, you are a fairly radical racist.

If your daughter (or sister, or granddaughter) had a mixed-race baby, would that bother you?

You just described two scenarios where one would be racist. Should those things matter, and have you (or anyone else) ever met anyone that felt that way? I had a childhood friend who's family held those or similar beliefs. In the 5 years we hung out, it came up once.

So, racism exists. I would not deny that, but should positive racism exist in that we bond together with like skinned people against other skinned people? Is that a good thing?

[jdshock]

The only place I ever see discrimination is on the news. It's like the boogeyman.

The original question is far too broad for a yes or no answer, and it's probably too broad for a message board. You'd have to define each of the terms, and it still wouldn't be clear if it means "does race matter ever" or "does race matter always?"

Your suggestion that the only place you see discrimination is on the news (and later you suggest you've seen it only once in your life with a family friend) indicates your experience or lack thereof with this topic. First of all, I'm astounded that you truthfully suggest you do not regularly see overt discrimination. Even if you don't want to ascribe something that may be racist (let's say a local store gives worse treatment to black individuals than it does to white folks) without direct evidence of racist intentions, I still see a significant amount of direct racism regularly. In the last year, I've been walking on the street when someone drives past and yells the n-word at a black individual that was also walking on the street. I've heard people make arguments about predispositions among black people that are certainly racist. I've heard very racist things. And it's not as if I'm the type of person (at least I hope not) that screams *will agree with any bigoted statement you share, so please share!*

These discussions don't have to turn to anecdotal discussions about what has or has not happened to an individual, but they always seem to turn that way. And when they do shift to anecdotal discussions, that is an instance in which race does matter. A white person only has so many interactions on a daily basis in which they could face discrimination. And a white person should be on the lookout for racism, but they don't have any inherent incentive to be on the lookout for it, right? If someone is racist against black people in my daily life, I want to care and be offended on behalf of that population, but I'm not personally affected by it, so it's easy for white people to "miss" everyday racism. So you should ask a black person if they feel like the only time they see discrimination is on the news. I would bet that the vast majority of black people would state that they personally see discrimination in person regularly.

[pinstripers]

Why do we see some many mixed couples where the man is black and the woman is white? Why is it so rare to see a white man and a black woman together?

[Dan]

But not segregated under the law. Should we be compelled by force to do more to "desegregate"?

I don't think forcing people to do something is really an answer. You create laws to protect interests but it's ultimately up to each individual person to do what they think is best for themselves. When you force things on people it creates resentment. Just my 2 cents.

[jdshock]

But not segregated under the law. Should we be compelled by force to do more to "desegregate"?

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on two Supreme Court cases regarding segregation in school districts.

Milliken v. Bradley - (old case) Basically it said that Brown v Board didn't require districts to bus students to other districts in order to prevent segregation. To give some context, you had a bunch of poor black families living in cities and a bunch of white families with resources that moved into suburbs, which created schools that were as segregated as they'd ever been under legally required segregation. The question came up about whether Brown required busing to prevent alleviate this segregation. The court said it didn't require it.

Parents Involved v Seattle School Districts - (This is a recent one) Somewhat similar issue, but the local school districts voluntarily wanted to create a busing program in an effort to achieve more integration. The court said they weren't allowed to implement the busing program (huge oversimplification, but basically said integration is good but it wasn't narrowly tailored enough to allow for a program that took race into consideration in busing patterns).

Should the court be allowed to prevent the type of "voluntary" (at the district/locality level, not necessarily at the individual level) integration efforts pursued by the districts in the second one?

[wufan]

On Brown v Wade, I agree with the outcome that segregation should not be enforced based on race. Segregation based on geography or academic ability seem much more logical.

On the second case, which I am not familiar with, I am opposed on principle to the decision. I believe that a community should be able to determine the program so long as it does not impede on someone else's rights. I'm not sure if that was the case here, which is why I am opposed in principle, but not necessarily in outcome.

[wufan]

I think the point I'm trying to get to is this:

Race doesn't matter in general circumstances. That is, it is illegal to deny someone rights based on their skin color. At the same time, racism does exist. Some people will think less of others based on their skin color. They might also think less of someone based on their weight, or height, or dental health. If they are poor judges of character, then these folks will draw on superficial variants. Not much can be done about that, and we are all better served by either educating these people or ignoring them.

I believe that grouping myself with like identified people to fight this is counter productive. This allows the bigoted to identify the group through the least common denominator. Rather, I think it is best to demonstrate morality/competence based on the individual through ideas. When we group based on ideas, we can have real discussions about the merit of an individual or the merit of the groups philosophies. For instance, it is very easy to group all white people with white nationalists because they are advocating for white people. Same for BLM. It would be better to advocate on behalf of Americans as this is the group for which we all belong, and the real differences between groups (political ideology, economic class, education) can then be sought after with a solution that ascribes the rights to all people based on merit.