Charlottesville riots

[ShockerPrez]

We have fought wars and lost young men fighting against the side of Antifa as well. The difference is that Antifa didn't name themselves to easily identify their side. So people are more prone to side with them because the Nazis are a known enemy. If they called themselves communists, they would be more toxic.

The left has always disguised their true identity and goals in order to dupe the masses.

[pinstripers]

Trump's lawyer literally said there's no difference between them. He said you can't be against one and for the other https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/16/u...l?mcubz=0&_r=0

I guess you think that is sorta the same. I guess it sorta is.

[shockfan89_]

I'm blown away by the fact that Trump and Co. have latched onto this argument that Lee and Washington are equals.

Like, Lee and Washington would've been best friends when one created a nation with the sole purpose of disbanding from the union the other established.

I'm blown away by the fact that the MSM and anti-Trump folks can't agree that both sides were violent and share blame and there is very little value in deciding which side is more to blame. They want to paint Trump as a racist because he stated the truth.

That said, I think there is a legitimate discussion that could take place regarding Lee and confederate leaders. In my mind there are reasons the statues should come down.

1. They lost the war. Where else do we celebrate the losers?
2. Morally they were in the wrong. I think the vast majority acknowledge this.
3. These statues are obviously viewed by some as reminders of racism or symbols of hate.

I also have concerns:

1. There were many people on both sides that fought and died. I don't want to remove all monuments.
2. This isn't something new so why is it an issue now? We had a black President for the past 8 years and I don't remember him commenting one time that these statues were celebrating racism. What changed to make this so important?
3. Statues being removed without communication or in the middle of the night.

I think it is also valid to ask where this should end? Is it just slavery? What about members of congress or supreme court justices that were affiliated with the KKK? Should we review their decisions or strike their votes from past legislation? Slavery was wrong, but it was legal at the time so are we talking about going back through history and punishing people as our country evolves? Are we just talking about confederate leaders or anyone who owned slaves? Who determines what behavior is bad? Slavery seems pretty easy, but what if it becomes abortion? Climate deniers? People who oppose Presidents?

[Play Angry]

The surrogates on both sides have suitably dumbed down the conversation now to the quagmire where it will rest until resuscitated by new events.

Dumb Left: "Trump is a white supremacist, indisputably, and Tuesday's statements prove it. He must love Richard Spencer and David Duke because they fanboy tweet him and he hasn't crushed them under his boot. We will see public lynchings return in city squares any day now because of this."

Dumb Right: "Trump despises the alt-right! He is just being fair and calling out both sides. What about the violent counterprotesters that nobody, and I mean nobody, is talking about except all of talk radio and the top rated news channel! The real issue here is the politically correct commies who are taking down these statues - free speech!!"


No room for nuance or discussion that, while clearly not a white supremacist, it is troubling that Trump appears to view the alt-right as a tool in his coalition's arsenal. If he condemns white supremacists strongly one moment, then it appeases his mainstream supporters who already feel squeamish about this uneasy alliance. If he then turns around and takes up the alt-right's dumb statue cause and whitewashes the nature of their events, team Spencer and his soccer haircut buds get a mega rager and get to say "SEE!!! HE'S ONE OF US, WE KNEW IT!" The first group pretends they don't see the second statement because Trump is a human Rohrschach test where everyone sees what they want, and he makes that incredibly easy since he purposely issues contradictory statements on a multitude of issues.

[pinstripers]

I don't like anybody telling me what to think. I don't like Nazis, Communists, Socialists, rabble-rousers, racists of any color, or those who want to prohibit free speech. I guess I hate pretty much everybody.

[pinstripers]

Dr King was a Republican who was against gay marriage. Are those statues gonna come down?

[ShockerPrez]

Dr King was a Republican who was against gay marriage. Are those statues gonna come down?

Let's start with Robert Byrd...

[Play Angry]

Seems like if the electorates in these cities (which are nearly universally dark blue dots on the electoral map) really give a **** then these mayors and city council members will have hell to pay in upcoming elections.

Statues aren't getting removed by feds swooping in from helicopters in towns similar to Winfield, Kansas. These are basically liberal hubs where it's obviously strange that they are still in place.

[ShockerPrez]

If a city elects to remove it, I dont have any issues. Remove it. Its their decision. And I also have no problem if they deny protest permits to any group seeking one. Its up to the city.

[ShockTalk]

Here's What Robert E. Lee Thought About Confederate Monuments.

Apparently, he also supported getting rid of the confederate flag.

No confederate flags were at his funeral, soldiers did not wear their confederate uniforms and he was not buried in his.

[Play Angry]

If a city elects to remove it, I dont have any issues. Remove it. Its their decision. And I also have no problem if they deny protest permits to any group seeking one. Its up to the city.

Yea but that's no fun for either side. Quit being rational.

[ShockerPrez]

Yea but that's no fun for either side. Quit being rational.

Permits schmermits!!

[RoyalShock]

Royal, I hate to say this because I really respect you, but that sounds like the dead woman was at fault because she was there. It pretty much exonerates the person who killed her, because she should have had the sense to leave because she should have known someone was going to successfully try to kill her.

Sorry, I made a slight leap in logic. What I meant was if you're still there when the police/NG show up and get arrested, you have no one to blame but yourself.

[Play Angry]

On the bright side if you live in a town with a boner for confederate monuments then I'm guessing you can pick up a dozen or so at firesale prices right now.

[ShockingButTrue]

Trump's lawyer literally said there's no difference between them. He said you can't be against one and for the other https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/16/u...l?mcubz=0&_r=0

But the President referenced the fact they were both slave owners right? Jefferson too. Was the President wrong stating this? It's a fine talking point. No?