What are the philosophical differences between conservative and liberals?

[atlwsu]

Here's a great 10 minute video that everyone should watch: https://youtu.be/zwkheFc-KWI

I have never heard envy articulated better. A common malady with all of us.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

I don't really disagree with you. Please note that I chose the terms left and right intentionally over the terms Republicans and Democrats. The right would include the libertarians and libertarian leaning republicans, and the left would include socialists and socialist leaning democrats.

Your words were chosen wisely then.

[wufan]

Here's a great 15 minute video on Social Justice and equal outcome. https://youtu.be/cQNaT52QYYA

[MoValley John]

Here's a great 15 minute video on Social Justice and equal outcome. https://youtu.be/cQNaT52QYYA

All I got out of it was causation and correlation.

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[wufan]

All I got out of it was causation and correlation.

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Good message, but beyond that, I think it points to the dangers of attempting to create equal outcome. By doing so you punish members of a group for being in a group and nothing more. Equal outcome is an inequality of justice.

[wufan]

On the subject of income inequality, I believe it to be a real problem. It creates the void of hope and creates a victim mentality. The greater the wealth disparity, the greater the fear of losing wealth at the top and the greater belief that wealth can't be achieved from the bottom. A proposed solution to this is to tax the wealthiest and create social programs for the relative poor. When taken to its ultimate level you finish with an equal outcome society. This has been proven to fail in every socialist country that we have seen in the past 120 years, and far worse, it has almost always lead to genocide. So what to do if not the redistribution of wealth? The State, and society, should promote a system of equal opportunity. With opportunity hopelessness is reduced. Further, I would argue that the use of social programs for anyone that is above the absolute poverty level actually works against those that it is proclaiming to help. Giving someone aide whenever they ask for it teaches them that favors are given to those that want it and that opportunity is a false narrative from those that already have it.

[wufan]

Nobody wishes to refute any of my assertions?

[pinstripers]

Nobody wishes to refute any of my assertions?

nope

[ShockTalk]

Nobody wishes to refute any of my assertions?

Not me either.

The real challenge is how you get to where you need to be as a viable society. Once the government starts handouts and increase those helping handouts, it's hard to ever take them back or restructure in a more positive way. Social Security was started as a welfare program to make sure the most needy could afford minimum necessities at retirement or if something happened to the breadwinner. Over time, politicians found that they could get elected and re-elected time and time again by turning SS into a poorly ran retirement plan. Now, fewer and fewer people properly prepare for retirement, if at all.

For one to properly appreciate what helping hand is being given to him, he needs to have "skin in the game". Without that, the hope that he will dig himself out to a better life on his own (and with help) is greatly reduced. At one time, most people turned away from what they viewed as charity. Unfortunately, now many look at it more and more as entitlement.

Education. Every child/young adult should be required to graduate from high school or some valuable equivalent. Mandatory. There is a lot that will need to go into this that many will not like.

On the federal level, decisions need to be made so that many more and much more diversified jobs are available for its middle and lower economic citizens. Positive incentives for both business and workers that will make both grow and be viable. Likewise, negative incentives for both who do not and prefer greed or handouts.

Moderation is best. Somewhere in the middle, a government and its citizens can and must meet. The far right wants things that a majority of the population will not go for while the far left wants a majority of its citizens to be beholding to them by making them slaves of the state. We need to all find middle ground to build on.

[wufan]

I think in order to take us back from where we are currently requires a mutual sacrifice from the right and the left for the greater good. To end all but the most necessary welfare programs (as my argument would imply) would cause an undue suffering on those at the lower end of the spectrum; rather a carefully crafted reduction in these services to a stated end goal would be the means that would make it possible.

One mechanism would be to slowly reduce minimum wage to the level just above absolute poverty and to create a negative income tax for those at and just above the poverty line. That negative income tax would be paid by the wealthy in this country through income tax. Once the value of earning is instilled in an individual that is hopeless, the value of opportunity can be realized through training received on the job and future promotion via that gained skill. The minimum wage would only apply to full time workers over the age of 22. All others would be served via open market.

A second mechanism would be better education for the poor. As you mentioned, the compulsory requirement of a high school diploma or equivalent in order to gain social services would push people towards a meaningful goal that would advantage them in contributing to society. Better schools in traditionally under-served areas that cater to those subjects that improve ones liklihood to be successful could be, again, paid for by a progressive tax system.

I'm not in favor of more taxes, but I think that funding new programs with the goal of providing increased opportunity is a long range plan to reduce taxes and unneeded government involvement. Eventually the inequality of income can be reduced by implementing additional opportunities that are based on productivity rather than on group identity.

[shocka khan]

I absolutely agree with your statements. Unfortunately I don't really believe most republicans are 'into this'. Read the history of the French Revolution and the famous quote from Maimroe Antoinette. Most of them are into letting the working people eat cake.

Tell me how that ended up?

[wufan]

I absolutely agree with your statements. Unfortunately I don't really believe most republicans are 'into this'. Read the history of the French Revolution and the famous quote from Maimroe Antoinette. Most of them are into letting the working people eat cake.

Tell me how that ended up?

Nobody's really proposing this (as best I can tell, or if they are, their agenda is hidden either intentionally to win over their core constituents or is being bastardized by the other side). As you pointed out with the French Revolution, the rise of the impoverished to overthrow the elite ended horribly...for everyone. So to did the Marxist rebellion in Russia. This just heightens the notion that we need to address it, and we shouldn't address it with a "if they have no bread" mentality anymore than we should address it by imprisoning all the successful entrepeneuers. Rather we must recognize the societal problem and work together to solve the issue.

The best way to solve the problems are the following:

• Listen to your opponent and share your beliefs.
• Treat all people as individuals and humans (this is a really difficult thing right now with social media). Do not belittle the opposition.
• convince the majority to come together for a greater good. If there is a common problem, then there is a common need to solve it. Working together will unite the differences.

[ShockTalk]

I absolutely agree with your statements. Unfortunately I don't really believe most republicans are 'into this'. Read the history of the French Revolution and the famous quote from Maimroe Antoinette. Most of them are into letting the working people eat cake.

Tell me how that ended up?

I believe you are very wrong. Unfortunately, other agendas get in the way, particularly with the far right.

[pinstripers]

I think 100% of Republicans are for ending welfare and getting those people jobs. Nobody knows how to do that, and the leftists do not want it to happen. It would destroy their party.

[mini-shock]

Money, and who has Power to move it around.