Election Day 2016

[CBB_Fan]

Just trying to follow along here with the left's narrative: So we are to be enraged that Russia might have helped to uncover emails that contained... wait for it... the truth?

So the reason we should be mad is not that there's not dirty laundry in the first place, but that said dirty laundry got exposed?

Perhaps that's over-simplified, but it seems kind of hilarious at face value.

Democrats are outraged because:

Republicans are encouraging state-level actors to meddle in our elections. To use an analogy, if USSR commies were found to have released top secret US information about the Iran-Contra affair to discredit Republicans and Reagan, Democrats would be lambasted as anti-American for trying to abuse the leak.

Whistleblowers in general aren't the problem, the problem is state-level actors acting in their own interests. We should not support our biggest adversary interfering in our election for its own interests, especially when that involves espionage and who knows what behind the scene. If an American working for a better America leaks dirty laundry, that is one thing. If Russia does it, they are doing it for Russian interests.

They are also outraged because the RNC was also hacked. That information was not released, or to be more clear has not been released yet. Russia isn't interested in transparency, they are interested in causing strife and pushing pro-Russia politicians. The information we haven't seen could be used as blackmail, or they could dump the anti-Trump emails you know the RNC guys sent to cause infighting when it is politically expedient. We shouldn't encourage Russia to have this much power over our elections.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Just trying to follow along here with the left's narrative: So we are to be enraged that Russia might have helped to uncover emails that contained... wait for it... the truth?

So the reason we should be mad is not that there's not dirty laundry in the first place, but that said dirty laundry got exposed?

Perhaps that's over-simplified, but it seems kind of hilarious at face value.

Quit playing dumb.

[SHOCKvalue]

Quit playing dumb.

Is the above really not what it distills down to? How is it not?

Do you support or loathe Snowden?

[pinstripers]

Democrats are outraged because:

They lost. That's why and it's the only reason.

[jdshock]

Is the above really not what it distills down to? How is it not?

Do you support or loathe Snowden?

Did you read @CBB_Fan:'s post? You may disagree with it for whatever reason, but it's at least not as simple as "libs are dumb and only upset about the hacking because they lost"

[SHOCKvalue]

Did you read @CBB_Fan:'s post? You may disagree with it for whatever reason, but it's at least not as simple as "libs are dumb and only upset about the hacking because they lost"

I didn't say that.

Although you could say, "libs are upset because unflattering factual information was uncovered and seen by the the electorate".

This seems like a classic message versus messenger situation.

Besides, there's a huge difference between these circumstances being the result of an active interaction between the republicans and the Russians, and the Russians simply having support for the same end result as the republicans. As far as I've heard there is no evidence to support the former. If I'm wrong bring me up to speed.

[jdshock]

I didn't say that.

Although you could say, "libs are upset because unflattering factual information was uncovered and seen by the the electorate".

This seems like a classic message versus messenger situation.

Wait... so did you or did you not read that post?

I can't speak for all liberals. I'll speak for myself (again, since this same conversation happened a couple days ago in a different thread):

I'm unhappy with some of the things that were in the leak. I think a lot of it was not as bad as conservatives made it out to be. I think a lot of it was taken out of context. I also think some was just completely made up (pizza-gate, for example).

But I also believe that regardless of who won, we now need to deal with Russia. Instead, conservatives have completely fallen in love with Russia over the last few months.

[SHOCKvalue]

Wait... so did you or did you not read that post?

I can't speak for all liberals. I'll speak for myself (again, since this same conversation happened a couple days ago in a different thread):

I'm unhappy with some of the things that were in the leak. I think a lot of it was not as bad as conservatives made it out to be. I think a lot of it was taken out of context. I also think some was just completely made up (pizza-gate, for example).

But I also believe that regardless of who won, we now need to deal with Russia. Instead, conservatives have completely fallen in love with Russia over the last few months.

His post was speculatory. What I'm supposed to do, speculate further on speculation. Am I a TMZ staff writer?

[jdshock]

His post was speculatory. What I'm supposed to do, speculate further on speculation. Am I a TMZ staff writer?

I don't follow at all. So is Russia being involved with the hacking "speculation" or is it speculation to guess what all liberals think?

[SHOCKvalue]

I don't follow at all. So is Russia being involved with the hacking "speculation" or is it speculation to guess what all liberals think?

*sigh

He was 100% speculating that the right was in bed with the Russians in this deal, as opposed to (as I've said) that it was just a case where Russia desired the same end result as the US right.

[jdshock]

*sigh

He was 100% speculating that the right was in bed with the Russians in this deal, as opposed to (as I've said) that it was just a case where Russia desired the same end result as the US right.

Come on, man. Do you have to be so snarky? What was the point in the "*sigh"? What did that do for your point?

That said:

*sigh

He never said what you're saying he did. He never said the right was in bed with Russia. He said Russia did this thing, and it benefited the right. And acting like it's as simple as "okay, but the stuff is true so we don't need to be mad at Russia" means that we are condoning state-level influence of American elections.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

So we are to be enraged that Russia might have helped to uncover emails that contained... wait for it... the truth?

So the reason we should be mad is not that there's not dirty laundry in the first place, but that said dirty laundry got exposed?

Your summary intentionally leaves out the nuance that only *selective* truths were uncovered and that only *selective* dirty laundry got exposed. That is a huge part to the debate, and it is genuinely dishonest to leave that out and pretend you are trying to "understand" the arguments being made. Also, you don't have to agree that conservatives are in bed with Russia to acknowledge that that is also part of what is being argued. Based on your follow-up posts, I agree with *some* of what you are saying, but come on now. I told you to quit playing dumb because, in the quoted post, you WERE playing dumb, and I think you knew it all along.

And regarding Snowden, I'm about 99% unfavorable toward him, for whatever that's worth.

[shockmonster]

Come on, man. Do you have to be so snarky? What was the point in the "*sigh"? What did that do for your point?

That said:

*sigh

He never said what you're saying he did. He never said the right was in bed with Russia. He said Russia did this thing, and it benefited the right. And acting like it's as simple as "okay, but the stuff is true so we don't need to be mad at Russia" means that we are condoning state-level influence of American elections.

I have no problem with going after Russia for hacking and even though Democrats never would have a bipartisan investigation into the IRS, or Benghazi when hey should have, Republicans should join for a bipartisan into a Russian hacking. However, havinf said that, this should not be about the legitimacy of the election. Hillary was a bad candidate, who had many flaws and she lost. Democrats need to have their own investigation into the reasons why a Republicans have majorities of elected officials in 2/3 of the states. Their policies are not resonating with the majority of Americans in Middle America.

[ShockTalk]

Just trying to follow along here with the left's narrative: So we are to be enraged that Russia might have helped to uncover emails that contained... wait for it... the truth?

So the reason we should be mad is not that there's not dirty laundry in the first place, but that said dirty laundry got exposed?

Perhaps that's over-simplified, but it seems kind of hilarious at face value.

If what Russia did was illegal, how is this situation any different than a person who was accused of a crime, only being proven a criminal because the police illegally gathered the information that did proved it, but in the US, that evidence is thrown out and ended up allowing the "criminal" to go free? Hell, I'm mad at both!! What's the debate.

They are also outraged because the RNC was also hacked. That information was not released, or to be more clear has not been released yet. Russia isn't interested in transparency, they are interested in causing strife and pushing pro-Russia politicians. The information we haven't seen could be used as blackmail, or they could dump the anti-Trump emails you know the RNC guys sent to cause infighting when it is politically expedient. We shouldn't encourage Russia to have this much power over our elections.

Honest question and my bad for not reading the article. A week or so ago, I thought I read a headline something to the sort "of how the RNC prevented being hacked". The article was from mainstream press. Which is true?

Is the above really not what it distills down to? How is it not?

Do you support or loathe Snowden?

Loathe.

But I also believe that regardless of who won, we now need to deal with Russia.

Instead, conservatives have completely fallen in love with Russia over the last few months.

Yes to the first sentence.

As to the second sentence, I hate it when anyone lumps a very large group as all the same, particularly when the intent is to sensationalize. I'm a conservative, I very much dislike Russia, and I'm pretty certain that most conservatives I know do to.

[jdshock]

Democrats need to have their own investigation into the reasons why a Republicans have majorities of elected officials in 2/3 of the states. Their policies are not resonating with the majority of Americans in Middle America.

I couldn't agree more, and I'm very disappointed that it appears they're not willing to make any changes. I (and I'm biased) am not even sure it's a policy thing as much as it is a rhetoric or attitude issue or something else. Democrats should have never lost Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, etc, and it's not like their policies are so incredibly different from when they were winning those states.

Many liberals I've spoken to are content saying nothing needs to change since they "won" the election by so many votes. I'm worried they're going to keep being surprised by elections like this.