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Originally posted by Ixiah
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How? Your point relied on the logical component that it's not worth doing something if you might not live to see the fruits of that labor. -
How so? If the goal is to promote libertarianism (that's where all this convo started) it seems rather strange and arbitrary to only evaluate your choices based on the immediate effects and to ignore the effects in 4, 8, 12 years and beyond. Grown ups know better than to do this with money. Why is voting any different?Originally posted by Ixiah View PostComment
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An extremely bad comparison.Originally posted by jdshock View Post
That war was a certainty and in the present for them. In the context it was a remote chance in the future.Comment
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And as I pointed out earlier Hillary plans comprehensive immigration reform (amnesty) through executive actions. A quick search put the number at roughly 11 million.Originally posted by Jamar Howard 4 President View Post
It is very well documented that immigrants vote heavily democrat. Tell me any future where this is a good thing for libertarians?Comment
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As stated .. out of context .. he is referring to a remote possibility in the future.Originally posted by jdshock View PostComment
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Come on now. Don't move the goalposts. Once again, here is your post...Originally posted by Ixiah View PostAnd as I pointed out earlier Hillary plans comprehensive immigration reform (amnesty) through executive actions. A quick search put the number at roughly 11 million.
It is very well documented that immigrants vote heavily democrat. Tell me any future where this is a good thing for libertarians?
If you want to say that a protest vote will be a bad idea *regardless* of how long you live, we can have that conversation, but you tied the impact of a protest vote to your own remaining lifespan. Your argument about Hillary's immigrants is totally irrelevant to that.Originally posted by Ixiah View Post
If a protest vote in 2016 has any value, its value isn't tied to how much longer you live. Somehow you seem to disagree, but you can't even seem to put together a coherent argument that stays on topic.Last edited by Jamar Howard 4 President; October 26, 2016, 01:51 PM.Comment
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Additional democrat voters would be, in and of itself, a bad thing for the libertarian movement. No one is arguing differently.
You are still completely failing to give any rationale why the timing of my death should impact my vote this year. If Hillary's immigration policies trump all other concerns, then I should vote Trump. Conversely, if I determine that a protest vote is the best choice this year, then I should vote 3rd party. Neither of these decisions are dependent in any way on whether I live 1 more month or 50 more years. The timing of my death has no bearing on this choice.
I answered your question. Now it is your turn to give a real defense of your strange claim or just admit that you don't have one.Comment
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Actually Johnson who you are planning to vote for is saying differently ... From an interview with Playboy magazine:Originally posted by Jamar Howard 4 President View Post
JOHNSON: I don't think Easterners recognize that the Hispanics who immigrate are great people, great citizens. They care about their families like other Americans care about their families. They're living in poverty in Mexico and can come to the United States and do a lot better.
PLAYBOY: By--according to some--taking away jobs.
JOHNSON: They work the lowest-paying jobs, which is a huge step up from where they come from. And they are taking jobs that other Americans don't necessarily want. They're hardworking people who are taking jobs that others don't want. That's the reality.
PLAYBOY: Would you open the borders and make it easier to immigrate legally?
JOHNSON: My vision of the border with Mexico is that a truck from the United States going into Mexico and a truck coming from Mexico into the United States will pass each other at the border going 60 miles an hour. Yes, we should have open borders. It will help enormously with the drug issue, too, by the way. One of the huge raps on Mexico is that it is a drug supplier, that it's the drug corridor. But there wouldn't be drugs coming in illegally from Mexico if there weren't the demand in the United States. We have a militarized border with Mexico, and it's a shame. It doesn't work very well, either. Mexican mules get paid a king's ransom to carry marijuana or cocaine across the border, but they are just mules. If they get caught, they're the ones who get locked up, not the drug lords. One out of eight gets caught. Whoever's paying them south of the border knows that equation and understands the risk.
PLAYBOY: In California, there was a backlash against illegal immigrants. Voters passed a proposition that would have denied them medical and other services.
JOHNSON: It wouldn't be a problem if they were legal, so the process to make them legal should be easier.
PLAYBOY: Many Americans fear the flood of immigrants that would follow.
JOHNSON: Again, they would come over and take jobs that we don't want. They would become taxpayers. They're just pursuing dreams---the same dreams we all have. They work hard. What's wrong with that?
Other notable libertarians such as the Koch brothers share similar views. In fact, the libertarian platform supports unlimited immigration:
"We welcome all refugees to our country. Furthermore, immigration must not be restricted for reasons of race, religion, political creed, age, or sexual preference. We therefore call for the elimination of all restrictions on immigration, the abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border Patrol, and a declaration of full amnesty for all people who have entered the country illegally."
http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Libertarian_Party_Immigration.htm
You ignored my question. I needed your answer to write my response.Originally posted by Jamar Howard 4 President View Post
**** REMEMBER I DO NOT KNOW YOUR AGE ****Originally posted by Jamar Howard 4 President View Post
It is a common belief to only worry about what happens in ones lifespan as relevant (mainly if you have no children). Its pretty interesting you brought up retirement savings because in a perfect world you would die broke.
"In a perfect world , the goal of retirement savings would be to ensure that on the day you pass away, you leave nothing behind unless you want to leave an inheritance to your spouse or children."
The same thing can be said with politics. Based on this a person would choose the best choice of the 2 candidates that have a chance of winning not worrying about anything beyond anticipated lifespan.
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Now the reason why I needed that answer on immigration- If you are a "hear and now" person the chances of the libertarian candidate winning are zero. So voting for a libertarian puts you at the mercy of other voters. That doesn't make sense does it?
- If you do a libertarian vote as a protest vote. You, by your own words, stated "additional democrat voters would be in and of itself, a bad thing for the libertarian movement" states it hurts the libertarian party (obviously in the future).
Even if we can never agree on this discussion I hope you might watch the video below by the noted economist Milton Friedman around the 9 min mark.
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Milton Friedman is such a stud. Love the video that discusses his take on libertarianism and Libertarianism.Kung Wu say, man who read woman like book, prefer braille!Comment
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The Johnson/Weld candidacy is cratering thanks primarily to Bill Weld and his enthusiastic support of Hillary Clinton. He was always a bit to Clinton-freindly but he has gone full metal jacket with that lately and really doesn't even try to hide it.
Ironically, in attempting to hurt Trump by helping Clinton he has probably done the opposite.
In any case, Weld has or will no doubt be excommunicated from the Libertarian Party (not that he was ever really much of a Libertarian). The Libertarian Party of Rhode Island pulled its support from a Weld rally that was to be held today resulting in the event being cancelled.
So Gary Johnson's biggest gaffe of his election campaign wasn't Aleppo after all. It was Bill Weld. Too bad for the Libertarian Party.
I was hanging in their with Gary Johnson until Weld went off the reservation. I have submitted my vote by advance ballot for Evan McMullin.
If I was in a state where the outcome was in question I would have held my nose, covered by eyes, ears and mouth and crossed my fingers and voted for Trump. Thank goodness I wasn't in that position.Comment
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I guess this gentlemen doesn't care for Bill Weld much either.
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