Oregon Protest

[MoValley John]

The problem with understanding the entirety of the issue is this, both sides are right, and both sides are wrong. Living in the Midwest or the East Coast makes it difficult to understand the frustration of the BLM, and also, ranchers. You really need to look at a map of federally held land to see that triuble is brewing. If the federal government had to pay state property taxes on land, the problem might resolve itself.

Map_of_all_U.S._Federal_Land.jpg

[shocka khan]

Who, besides you, gives a ****?

If you don't like it, why don't you apply for a moderator's job on Shockernet.

Do you think I give a **** about your highlights in life - like prairie dog hunting? Wow, some life!

Until now, I haven't brought that up, nor have I brought up your propensity to hijack threads as well (with the results of your prairie dog hunt).

Keep on trolling. You make a good one. Blind to crap you mindlessly post here everyday, but being the board monitor for everyone else.

[MoValley John]

If you don't like it, why don't you apply for a moderator's job on Shockernet.

Do you think I give a **** about your highlights in life - like prairie dog hunting? Wow, some life!

Until now, I haven't brought that up, nor have I brought up your propensity to hijack threads as well (with the results of your prairie dog hunt).

Keep on trolling. You make a good one. Blind to crap you mindlessly post here everyday, but being the board monitor for everyone else.

The problem is your opinion is based on fanatic Mormons, and you are posting about a guy that has been dead for decades. He has nothing to do with the issue.

The Bundy's are a horrible family to be leading the protest, but the issue of BLM abuse is real. Unfortunately, BLM is not putting land to its best use, the Federal government is hoarding land that should be sold to the private sector and they create and enforce rules that are unworkable for the lessees.

There is very little excess federal land held in Texas, Kansas our Nebraska. It is too far east to see the problem. In the Midwest and East Coast, the federal government has held onto to, or manages Indian Reservations, National Parks, Corps land, sensitive wildlife areas and military bases. Not much more. Almost the rest of federal land has been privatized.

The same can't be said for the west. The federal government holds on to land that has no strategic value, is not environmentally sensitive and not part of the National Park System. They hoard that land. And they regulate the land to death. All that we hear about are gun toting extremists wanting tax free land and cheap leases, it's a lot more complicated than that.

Then we get you forming an opinion, and expressing your opinion, based on a Mormon that has been dead for 35+ years. You went Bob Schwertley on the issue.

[MoValley John]

And I'm glad you went all bigot on the Mormons. If we substituted all of your anti Mormon bullshit with anti Muslim bullshit, we'd have a pretty good Donald Trump presidential ad.

[ShockTalk]

The problem is your opinion is based on fanatic Mormons, and you are posting about a guy that has been dead for decades. He has nothing to do with the issue.

And I'm glad you went all bigot on the Mormons. If we substituted all of your anti Mormon bullshit with anti Muslim bullshit, we'd have a pretty good Donald Trump presidential ad.

What does one talking about "fanatic Mormons" have to do with "went all bigot on the Mormons" which includes all Mormons?

[MoValley John]

What does one talking about "fanatic Mormons" have to do with "went all bigot on the Mormons" which includes all Mormons?

Just taking it to the extreme and painting with a similar broad brush to the one Shocka has used.

He is linking a dispute with the BLM and painting everyone involved in the dispute as fanatical Mormons. They aren't all fanatical Mormons, and not everyone with a beef against the BLM is protesting. The Dude he is mentioning and linked Wiki has been DEAD since 1981.

[ShockTalk]

Just taking it to the extreme and painting with a similar broad brush to the one Shocka has used.

He is linking a dispute with the BLM and painting everyone involved in the dispute as fanatical Mormons. They aren't all fanatical Mormons, and not everyone with a beef against the BLM is protesting. The Dude he is mentioning and linked Wiki has been DEAD since 1981.

Well, I read his posts differently. In post #60 he makes the distinction between the occupiers and Mormons in general. That post and his later posts are not referencing the beef against the BLM, but the occupation itself and them as the occupiers being grifters.

[MoValley John]

Well, I read his posts differently. In post #60 he makes the distinction between the occupiers and Mormons in general. That post and his later posts are not referencing the beef against the BLM, but the occupation itself and them as the occupiers being grifters.

That's fine, I just don't get the post and wiki link of a guy that died in 1981. The occupiers poss me off, but there is a real issue with BLM, that story isn't being told. Also, I sent Shocka a PM I think he will appreciate.

[DUShock]

One less.

[ShockTalk]

That's fine, I just don't get the post and wiki link of a guy that died in 1981. The occupiers poss me off, but there is a real issue with BLM, that story isn't being told. Also, I sent Shocka a PM I think he will appreciate.

This big time! Unfortunately, that doesn't have enough pizzazz for the media.

[shocka khan]

Just taking it to the extreme and painting with a similar broad brush to the one Shocka has used.

He is linking a dispute with the BLM and painting everyone involved in the dispute as fanatical Mormons. They aren't all fanatical Mormons, and not everyone with a beef against the BLM is protesting. The Dude he is mentioning and linked Wiki has been DEAD since 1981.

I lived in Arlington when Ervil did the three 4 pm murders. One was next door to where I lived at the time (Irving). It had a profound Iimpact on me. 14 kids from two families without either a father (or both parents). All ordered by Ervil from jail and carried out by his followers.

For months, no explanations or leads. People afraid for speaking out for fear they'd be next.

Again, I want to emphasize these folks were JACK Mormons. Their church is an offshoot of the mainstream Mormon religion. I have Mormons and ex-Mormons who are friends of mine. They are hard working, highly moral and very nice people. I have worked with and associated socially with Mormons for years. I respect their religion.

The exact polar opposite areJack Mormons, who practice polygamy )Utah had to outlaw polygamy to be admitted as a state). There is a BIG difference.

[MoValley John]

With all due respect, a Jack Mormon is not what you describe. A Jack Mormon would be a baptized Mormon that doesn't follow the faith, similar to a lapsed Catholic or a cultural, or secular Jew. Jack Mormons tend to be more liberal, possibly even, God forbid, Democrats.

[shocka khan]

With all due respect, a Jack Mormon is not what you describe. A Jack Mormon would be a baptized Mormon that doesn't follow the faith, similar to a lapsed Catholic or a cultural, or secular Jew. Jack Mormons tend to be more liberal, possibly even, God forbid, Democrats.

You're right. I remember I read the term in the book The Monkey Wrench Gang and my take away was that it was used to describe a polygamous Mormon (or Mormon who was excommunicated).

Thanks for pointing out to me that I was incorrect in my description of this group. By the way, do you (or anyone else) know what a polygamous Mormon is called?

[ShockTalk]

Fundamentalists?

[MoValley John]

Fundamentalists?

I'd call them fundamentalists as well. But the people Shocka is describing, I wouldn't classify as fundamentalists, but cult leaders.

As for the Oregon protesters, they are a wide group of people, some extremists, a few not. They need to be arrested. At the same time, these people are upset about BLM practices and have had enough. Rather than simply label these people and call it a day, we should at least give a cursory look into what is making them so angry.