Trump

[Aargh]

Beyonce, Brittney Spears, and Madonna aren't running for President. Beyonce is worth $700 million. There are a lot less moral things than showing one's butt that people have used to attain that type of wealth.

Anybody old enough to remember Jim Morrison? He also never ran for President. anybody old enough to be a fan of The Doors? WARNING: this becomes incredibly NSFW on speakers at about the 5:30 mark.

[MoValley John]

Beyonce, Brittney Spears, and Madonna aren't running for President. Beyonce is worth $700 million. There are a lot less moral things than showing one's butt that people have used to attain that type of wealth.

Anybody old enough to remember Jim Morrison? He also never ran for President. anybody old enough to be a fan of The Doors? WARNING: this becomes incredibly NSFW on speakers at about the 5:30 mark.

So where do you draw the line? President? Teacher? Coach? Mayor? Governor? Drawing the line is unfair and hypocritical. You either condone or oppose behavior. Bad behavior begets bad behavior.

Here's the deal, art is supposed to immitate life. But as Oscar Wilde said, "Life imitates art far more than art imitates life." Therefore, Trump has merely imitated what art presents. If you are appalled by Donald Trump's words, you better be appalled by Beyonce, Madonna, Brittany and Miley. We are imitating them. Not many people imitate Jimmy Carter, Obama, Ford, Reagan or Bush. We hope they lead well, but they are cirizens and have the same skeletons as most others. If we hold them to that standard, few, of any are fit to lead. Alas, it's art that leads the way, and if you are offended by what Trump said, running for president or not, you better be offended and outraged by the artists that glorify that behavior.

I understand that you dont like Trump, neither do I, but I can't draw the line at indiscretions from a decade ago. I don't like trimp because he is an inexperienced, childish, narcissistic meglomaniac, not because he may have grabbed a boob or two ten years ago. I also don't get the media dogpile while they ignore all of the emails. It's mindboggling.

Like I've said, I'm voting for Johnson. There is no lesser of two evils, both Clinton and Trump are evil. Johnson is just a little kooky.

[ShockingButTrue]

My mother is 96. She will be voting for Trump. She gets her news from Fox News. If she feels she needs confirmation of any of Fox News' info, she checks with the 700 Club to see if they are verifying what she heard on Fox.

She is certain that Donald Trump is the only person in the nation who can "get us out of this mess".

... And doesn't know what "C" means!

[jdshock]

So where do you draw the line? President? Teacher? Coach? Mayor? Governor? Drawing the line is unfair and hypocritical. You either condone or oppose behavior. Bad behavior begets bad behavior.

Here's the deal, art is supposed to immitate life. But as Oscar Wilde said, "Life imitates art far more than art imitates life." Therefore, Trump has merely imitated what art presents. If you are appalled by Donald Trump's words, you better be appalled by Beyonce, Madonna, Brittany and Miley. We are imitating them. Not many people imitate Jimmy Carter, Obama, Ford, Reagan or Bush. We hope they lead well, but they are cirizens and have the same skeletons as most others. If we hold them to that standard, few, of any are fit to lead. Alas, it's art that leads the way, and if you are offended by what Trump said, running for president or not, you better be offended and outraged by the artists that glorify that behavior.

I understand that you dont like Trump, neither do I, but I can't draw the line at indiscretions from a decade ago. I don't like trimp because he is an inexperienced, childish, narcissistic meglomaniac, not because he may have grabbed a boob or two ten years ago. I also don't get the media dogpile while they ignore all of the emails. It's mindboggling.

Like I've said, I'm voting for Johnson. There is no lesser of two evils, both Clinton and Trump are evil. Johnson is just a little kooky.

Drawing the line is unfair? You're starting to sound like us liberals. Aerospace engineers should have extensive math backgrounds. Social workers probably don't need it. Presidents should be held to a higher standard than rappers. Arguably, each of the professions you listed should be.

It's just a silly argument. Do you like Ocean's 11? Then you're a hypocrite for saying Clinton is stealing from Americans. She's just imitating art.

I think a big part of the misunderstanding is not knowing what part of the sentence was "offensive." The words he used were not particularly offensive to me. Admittedly, rappers use similar words all the time. Fewer rap songs condone sexual assault, though.

And those that do? Well, I'm probably not going to vote for that rapper.

[shockmonster]

My mother is 96. She will be voting for Trump. She gets her news from Fox News. If she feels she needs confirmation of any of Fox News' info, she checks with the 700 Club to see if they are verifying what she heard on Fox.

She is certain that Donald Trump is the only person in the nation who can "get us out of this mess".

At first glance, I thought you were denigrating Fox News who has some programs were very good news information. As I re-read your post, I think your point is that it is not good to get your information from only one point of view. If this is what you are saying, I wholeheartedly agree.

However the other side of the pancake is the millions of Americans who only listen to CNN, NBC, and other networks who show the other side to one degree or another and some of who wiki leaks showed colluded with the Clinton campaign.

[Play Angry]

Anyone who watched a James Bond movie yet expressed disgust, frustration, anger or disapproval of Bill Clinton's alleged or self-admitted extramarital activities is a hypocrite as well, right?

Just want to be clear that most folks have no right to feel offended or disapprove of adultery or other poor behavior by national leaders so long as similar behavior is glorified at some level of popular culture. Because that is the most basic premise here.

It sounds cute and makes sense in a 17 year old reading his first philosophy book sort of way.

[Play Angry]

"I mean, Sean was so hypocritical to be mad when he heard his wife had an affair. He loves House of Cards, after all. He only has a right to be angry with her on the merits of her cooking, income or other quasi-quantifiable measure!"

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

I'm ok with a former vile rapper working at McDonalds. I'll still eat their burgers from time to time. However, I'm not ok with him becoming President. I'm happy to denounce his actions and words whether he is still rapping, unemployed, flipping burgers, or President.

I choose to expect higher standards for employees of certain jobs, but that doesn't change the fact that I still condemn bad behavior from anyone.

[Play Angry]

Also, can we assume that a brief search of MVJ's posts on here, spanning half a decade or so and during which a great many jabs have been made at Bill's infidelity (some by yours truly), would reveal a comparable crusade pointing out that hypocrisy?

If not, it seems hypocritical to just now post so critically of this hypocrisy, and MVJ is being a tremendous (the biggest?) hypocrite in this thread by leading that charge.

[RoyalShock]

Anyone who watched a James Bond movie yet expressed disgust, frustration, anger or disapproval of Bill Clinton's alleged or self-admitted extramarital activities is a hypocrite as well, right?

Just want to be clear that most folks have no right to feel offended or disapprove of adultery or other poor behavior by national leaders so long as similar behavior is glorified at some level of popular culture. Because that is the most basic premise here.

It sounds cute and makes sense in a 17 year old reading his first philosophy book sort of way.

I think you're right. And I also think it's a big part of what is wrong with our society. Should we be entertained by behaviors we would not engage in our own lives, or condone in the lives of those close to us?

Again, I'm looking in the mirror here.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Not so fast @Play Angry:.

MVJ's biggest point, by far, has been that both sides are hypocrites because they accuse their enemies and defend their friends on the same behavior. He's calling out both sides here on their hypocrisy. I'm not comfortable tallying lifetime post counts and saying, "you didn't post enough 5 years ago about X, therefore you can't now post about Y".

If he were defending Clinton now, it would be different. But he isn't.

[Play Angry]

And now, by extension, am I being hypocritical by pointing out MVJ's hyper-hypocritcal (shameful, really) criticisms of the hypocrisy of the criticisms of others, when failing to point out similar hypocrisies elsewhere when observing similarly hypocritical criticisms?

Perhaps!



This kind of logic is not the checkmate tool some think it is.

[MoValley John]

I just think ee already accepted this behavior when we accepted it from Bill Clinton. Yes, there was controversy, but in the end, it was fine that he used his power to have sexual relations with a subordinate. As a society, we discussed Clinton's behavior, we argued over it, he was impeached over it, but in the end, it was decided that the behavior was acceptable of our president. We have set the precident.

As far as Donald's transgressions, none of these allegations are recent. If someone makes unwanted advances, does that disqualify them from being president forever? If someone makes lewd remarks, are they forever barred from being president? Is there no time in which we overlook some past discretions- or is that reserved for Bill Clinton and JFK? Totally hypocritical.

Criticize Trump for being boorish. Criticize him for lacking any government experience and lacking diplomacy. Criticize him for being a self absorbed narcissist. Criticize him for his platform and lack of knowledge on international issues, for God's sake, these are legitimate and terrifying concerns. We are past being off put by sex scandals, that ended with Bill Clinton. Instead, argue against Trump for reasons that really matter, this ass and boob grabbing scandal is a decade old smoke screen.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

I have been asked numerous times recently by family/friends, "why are you so vocal about Trump and not Clinton?" Because Clinton was an open shut case, at least in my circles. Only now with Trump do I actually deal with a significant number of people interested in defending/supporting him. My 100:1 ratio of Trump vs Clinton criticism is not at all meant to be a positive commentary on Clinton.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Criticize Trump for being boorish. Criticize him for lacking any government experience and lacking diplomacy. Criticize him for being a self absorbed narcissist. Criticize him for his platform and lack of knowledge on international issues, for God's sake, these are legitimate and terrifying concerns. We are past being off put by sex scandals, that ended with Bill Clinton. Instead, argue against Trump for reasons that really matter, this ass and boob grabbing scandal is a decade old smoke screen.

Too many people are indeed past such things. I, personally, am not. I would encourage others to do the same. Being surrounded by unethical fools doesn't mean I should give in and become one too.