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**ShockingButTrue** · August 22, 2018, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by ShockCrazy View Post

I don't get this, why would stop at the aisle? It requires some serious tinfoil. This isn't a partisan issue like Trump wants you to think. Mueller is a Republican, but he isn't interested in partisanship. He seeks to find and punish criminals. If he finds crimes of Democrats you can bet your ass he'll pursue charges. Anyone who opposes Trump isn't necessarily partisan and on the left. I certainly am not, it's just I can look at Trump for what he is and it's not a pretty sight.

The claims of bias are valid. That's obvious to anyone, because there's evidence. There were chants of impeach in Jan. of '17, if not 11-9-16.

Much of it has been exposed. We probably haven't seen the end of it either.

**C0|dB|00ded** · August 22, 2018, 01:01 PM

The one thing I am dying to find out is who's behind the curtain on this witch hunt? One side of me thinks Mueller's got a massive opportunity waiting for him via a Deep State Dem, but then another side has me thinking this could also just be revenge from the Bush family. Trump has pissed off Libbies and Conservatives alike. Meanwhile we continue to enjoy the greatest economy in.. maybe forever.

Trump has done nearly everything he's promised his voters on the campaign trail and continues to have the Midas Touch when it comes to executive action. CNN would have you think he is mere moments from being out the door, but if the presidential election was replayed tomorrow, Trump wins in a landslide. We're actually experiencing wage inflation now as there are not enough applicants to fill all the jobs. We may need to bring back B.O. to cool this economy off if things get too bad (good).

T

...:cool:

**ShockingButTrue** · August 22, 2018, 02:27 PM

An MSNBC guest who claims Fox is talking about "some girl in Iowa" as a news story is another indicator of why Trump is now the President, and will remain so.

https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb...-iowa-fox-news

**C0|dB|00ded** · August 22, 2018, 02:49 PM

Go Big Don GO!

I love the characterization that Newt Gingrich offered for Trump long before he won the Republican nomination. "He's a blue-collar, bar room brawler".

Trump ain't gonna let this Benedict Arnold of a Republican get the best of him. He'll fight until he's knocked unconscious. He needs to fire Mueller immediately and have all investigative documents turned over to a bipartisan committee for final ruling (dismissal) on the entire Russian collusion (He's Not My President) farce. Trump also needs to pardon any who've been cross-implicated on unrelated charges of what should have been a search for collusion ONLY.

I guarantee you this: If the United States government investigated you or I with an unlimited budget and prior bias, we'd be going down for a lot of stuff. There isn't one senator or congressmen in Washington that would survive a federally funded witch hunt. I'm actually quite surprised that some serious **** hasn't come out on The Donald. I would suspect a New York developer like him would be as dirty as a rat - probably is in many respects but no more dirty than any other New York billionaire. The difference between a Donald and a Bloomberg is that Donald is currently an agent for the good guys. He's doing the GOOD work for the people, of the people, and by the people. Perhaps it's his own form of repentance. But nevertheless, he's doing what is right for America's future and being attacked by a legion of those who represent what is wrong: laziness, "immorality" (my definition), communism and other ideologies that seek to strip American's from their "God-given" liberties setting us back on B.O.'s destruction course.

T

...:cool:

**C0|dB|00ded** · August 22, 2018, 04:18 PM

Not to derail the current exciting direction of this thread but... I must reminisce for a moment if you'll indulge me.

It was early evening on November 8th and Shrillary's throne was being feverishly polished with the fluttering lips of all the major Libtard talking heads. I was solemn. I couldn't watch the election coverage so I decided to take in a late night movie (I believe it was Dr. Strange). Boy what a strange night it turned out to be as around mid-movie (11PM'ish) I checked the Dow futures - the tale of the tape seemed much more palatable to me than some Libtard climaxing via headline.

DOW FUTURES -750 POINTS!

Holy S. I thought to myself. I scrambled out of the theater and called my mom to wake her (she's the biggest Trumper ever). I didn't even have to read the news. "He's cracked the blue wall mom! We're home free!"

The End.

T

...:cool:

**WuDrWu** · August 22, 2018, 04:21 PM

That was a beautiful moment when the left started seeing PA and MI turn. Time to go to youtube and remember.

**WstateU** · August 22, 2018, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by WuDrWu View Post

That was a beautiful moment when the left started seeing PA and MI turn. Time to go to youtube and remember.

**C0|dB|00ded** · August 22, 2018, 04:51 PM

Suck it!

T

...:cool:

**C0|dB|00ded** · August 22, 2018, 05:46 PM

In case of Mueller firing, break glass: Dems prep an emergency plan

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/case-mueller-firing-break-glass-democrats-prep-emergency-plan-n902526

Congressional action and protest rallies are among the contingencies being planned if Trump tries to shut down the Russia probe.

Democrats have drafted a wide-ranging contingency plan should Mueller be fired or President Donald Trump take other steps to quash the Russia investigation, like firing Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein or pardoning key witnesses.

And in cities across the country, rallies would be hastily scheduled for 5 p.m., if Mueller is fired before 2 p.m. on any given day. If he’s fired in the late afternoon or evening, the protests would be set for noon the following day.

The Democratic group MoveOn.org has been organizing 933 such rallies, with locations picked out and sponsors enlisted to handle logistics. The list includes rallies in big cities like Los Angeles, along with protests in more remote areas, such as the federal buildings in Bismarck, North Dakota, and Hilo, Hawaii.

It’s unclear how many people would actually turn out, but more than 350,000 people have RSVP'd online to attend. The campaign director for MoveOn, David Sievers, said the group expects that the number of protests will grow and that far more would sign up to attend once news broke of Trump’s actions.

Oh boy! They gettin' ready!!11111

3...2...1... Okay, start manipulating impressionable poor people to get out of their homes and into the streets committing violent acts and getting into trouble. We have all major news agencies standing by to record any foolish police officers willing to do their jobs in the face of a tyrannical Russian president. Now remember guys, the more agitated the protesters the better the optics. We need blood, sweat, and tear gas. Consider offering alcohol (on the bus) while driving out to the designated protest areas. This is our country we're fighting for! Now let's get out there and start breaking some laws!!!

What? You're saying that most of the regular protesters won't be able to make it and have turned down our usual per diem?? Because they now have A JOB???!!!

#MAGA

T

...:cool:

**C0|dB|00ded** · August 22, 2018, 05:57 PM

Just came across this lol. What the hell?

T

...:cool:

**wufan** · August 22, 2018, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by jdshock View Post

Alright, I think many people on this board believe at least something similar to the above. Nearly all of it is just objectively false. I am sure this post is going to be longer than it needs to be, but it's incredibly important that people understand this.

Evidence was Flimsy

Presumably, the idea of this sentence is that the "evidence" to start the investigation was flimsy. As a starting point, we can't require investigations to have rock solid evidence before an investigation. The investigation must have sufficient support to justify an investigation (which I'll cover more later, and it certainly existed in this case), but that's it. An investigation is not a conviction. As compared to obtaining a conviction, starting an investigation should be relatively very easy.

Started by Opposition Research via a Foreign Citizen

So, this has two issues. The first is that it's just not true. The second is that it wouldn't really matter even if it were true.

As a baseline, it's just not true that the dossier started everything. Nunes released his memo which withheld a ton of information and really argued that the FBI abused its authority. But even that memo admits that "The Papadopoulos information triggered the opening of an FBI counterintelligence investigation in late July 2016." What actually happened is that Papadopoulos was a chatty-kathy and told an Australian diplomat that he knew Russia had political dirt on Clinton. Once emails were released, Australian officials to American officials. So, picture this, a campaign representative for Trump is bragging to Australian diplomats that Russia has dirt on Clinton... and then the dirt is released.

The grain of truth that has caused people to believe everything was started by the dossier relates to Carter Page. After all of the above stuff went down, the FBI and DOJ got a FISA warrant to look into Carter Page. Now, we don't know everything in the application because it is so heavily redacted. But let's assume it's primarily based on the dossier. The application specifically sets out that the information came from someone looking to discredit "Candidate #1." Everybody has biases. In criminal trials, it's incredibly unlikely that you have someone who doesn't have a bias. It's about weighing that bias and attempting to verify the information to the best of your abilities.

More importantly, and I've ranted about this before on here, it's incredibly easy to get a FISA warrant. Like 0.2% of all applications EVER have been denied. And maybe we should change that rule, but probably not just because it happens to relate to someone involved in Trump's campaign.

So at this point an investigation is ongoing. On May 9, 2017, Trump fires Comey. On May 11, 2017, Trump tells the world it was because of Russia. On May 17, 2017, Special Counsel is appointed.

TLDR: Papadopoulos's bragging actually started everything. Then there was a FISA warrant on Page, which is really easy to get. And finally, the special counsel wasn't actually appointed until Trump fired Comey and said it was because of the Russia investigation.

18 Months

Not to nitpick, but it's actually only been 15 months. This article is a little older at this point and obviously doesn't include the newest indictments, but it's a good explanation of how quickly this investigation is moving. It's unreal. Clinton's lasted more than 6 years. We're not even a year and a half in, and there have been so many indictments or convictions.

Unrelated Crimes

From a logical standpoint, you can't rely on unrelated crimes as proof that the initial investigation was invalid. If a cop is in a house and finds drugs, it absolutely matters whether or not the cop is there because he chased a murder suspect in the house or whether he threw a rock through the window to get a peek at what was going on. Finding the drugs does not suggest it was one or the other.

But, let me try to convince you that they're not even unrelated crimes. Read the order appointing the special counsel. It's for any links between the Russian government and individuals associated with Trump's campaign and any matters arising from the investigation. Let's go through some of them: (1) Flynn pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his conversations with Russian officials. (2) Papadopoulos pleaded guilty to lying about relationships he had with foreign nationals who he believed had close connections with senior Russian government officials. (3) 13 Russian nationals were indicted for interfering in the election. (4) 12 Russian officers were indicted for hacking the DNC's emails. (5) Gates pleaded guilty to certain crime, some of which related to hiding foreign assets and his time as a lobbyist for foreign governments. Those are all, almost entirely DIRECTLY part of the initial goal of the investigation.

Manafort was found guilty on financial crimes and mistrials were ordered on some of the other counts that related more to the Gates stuff. Cohen's is also somewhat "separate" in the sense that his doesn't appear to relate to Russian involvement at this point in time, but it would be very difficult not to look into. We don't have any of the private conversations that Mueller has had with (1)-(5) and people could absolutely be saying Cohen has all the evidence.

The Purpose - Final Points

Trump keeps calling it a witch hunt because he wants people to believe that it's totally unwarranted. His plan is working. People like you are falling for it. The fact is that this investigation is moving swiftly and it's been incredibly productive to date.

Trump's ultimate hope is that Mueller does not charge Trump himself. It's certainly a major legal question mark. Mueller might not ever make public his findings. If he gives it directly to Congress, Trump can withhold the findings or discredit the findings on the basis that it was always a witch hunt. Do not fall for the idea that it is a witch hunt before we know what the findings are.

If Trump withholds the findings or the findings are made public and they suggest bad acts on his part, I would hope people like you would be willing to stand against Trump at that point in time. If the findings are made public and they don't reveal any bad acts on Trump's part, I'll certainly be willing to accept them.

I really appreciate you doing this! This wasn’t a small task to put all of these facts together, and you added sources (which I did not read), so kudos to you on a seriously stellar job! I have points to quibble with, but overall I agree with your recounting of the story. So, why do I come to a different conclusion than you, and still disagree with your take that my facts are incorrect (though they certainly lacked precision)?

The investigation into Russian collusion seems to have begun in the summer of 2016. This Is around the time Trump suggested that the Russians were interfering and just before Obama said that wasn’t possible. The Carter Paige FISA warrant was obtained within weeks of the Popodopolous investigation. These two things don’t appear to tie Trump to Russia very strongly, uet it was strongly pursued. So, 15 mints, 25 months, it’s greater than a year worth of investigation.

The firing of the FBI Director then becomes the item that leads to an actual Trump investigation. To me, this seems really week compared to the attention the president has received in the investigation. I call that flimsy in relationship to the Russian collusion charges...I do.

With this investigation, they’ve nailed several Russians that have no known or suggested affiliation with the Trump campaign. A low level campaign advisor was bragging about intel, there was a meeting (Don Jr) to get intel, and the fixer is suggesting there’s more info. I would expect that this too little evidence for this level of investigation against the potus. It feels like sour grapes...hence a witch hunt.

I support justice! If that means ousting Trump, then so be it. It is clear to me however that we have different perspectives on the evidence.

**WuDrWu** · August 22, 2018, 06:46 PM

I honestly hate to bring this up, but I wonder what, if anything, the arrest and apparent confession of the illegal immigrant in the Mollie Tibbets murder will have over the next 3 months. I know the Dems would be rolling that out every day if it helped their cause (never let a good crisis go to waste) but while I think it would help the Build the Wall mantra, I will go on record to say I hope the GOP does not use it. Let her rest in peace. And allow her family to mourn and remember the daughter they lost to this horrific and tragic event.

**jdshock** · August 22, 2018, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by wufan View Post

I really appreciate you doing this! This wasn’t a small task to put all of these facts together, and you added sources (which I did not read), so kudos to you on a seriously stellar job! I have points to quibble with, but overall I agree with your recounting of the story. So, why do I come to a different conclusion than you, and still disagree with your take that my facts are incorrect (though they certainly lacked precision)?

The investigation into Russian collusion seems to have begun in the summer of 2016. This Is around the time Trump suggested that the Russians were interfering and just before Obama said that wasn’t possible. The Carter Paige FISA warrant was obtained within weeks of the Popodopolous investigation. These two things don’t appear to tie Trump to Russia very strongly, uet it was strongly pursued. So, 15 mints, 25 months, it’s greater than a year worth of investigation.

The firing of the FBI Director then becomes the item that leads to an actual Trump investigation. To me, this seems really week compared to the attention the president has received in the investigation. I call that flimsy in relationship to the Russian collusion charges...I do.

With this investigation, they’ve nailed several Russians that have no known or suggested affiliation with the Trump campaign. A low level campaign advisor was bragging about intel, there was a meeting (Don Jr) to get intel, and the fixer is suggesting there’s more info. I would expect that this too little evidence for this level of investigation against the potus. It feels like sour grapes...hence a witch hunt.

I support justice! If that means ousting Trump, then so be it. It is clear to me however that we have different perspectives on the evidence.

Here is the biggest issue I have with the idea that there is not sufficient evidence to support the investigation:

How much evidence do you need to investigate a president? Is it more than you need to investigate a regular citizen?

**jdshock** · August 22, 2018, 08:44 PM

Cold has proposed evidence "beyond a reasonable doubt" to BEGIN an investigation. That's so backwards from how our judicial system is meant to function. Literally NO investigation would ever occur if that were the standard since you would just convict at that point.

Edit to add: "it's not clear the son knew she had connections to the Russian government" - c'mon... The emails Jr released himself show that she claimed to have those connections.

**Shockm** · August 22, 2018, 08:48 PM

Originally posted by WuDrWu View Post

I honestly hate to bring this up, but I wonder what, if anything, the arrest and apparent confession of the illegal immigrant in the Mollie Tibbets murder will have over the next 3 months. I know the Dems would be rolling that out every day if it helped their cause (never let a good crisis go to waste) but while I think it would help the Build the Wall mantra, I will go on record to say I hope the GOP does not use it. Let her rest in peace. And allow her family to mourn and remember the daughter they lost to this horrific and tragic event.

MSNBC and CNN have never mentioned her murder in a story. ABC, NBC, and CBS have barely mentioned it in very short sound bites and very short stories. They are respecting her demise and actual murder for sure if not covering it up.

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