Trump

[shockmonster]

My original statement is one of philosophy. I believe that people are inherently good, and when given the opportunity, they will generally do what is best.

You are a very positive and optimistic person and that is to be admired. I wouldn't disagree that business is not inherently bad. However, absent the values that were brought to this earth by Jesus Christ, it is difficult to defend that people are inherently good. It tends to be about the powerful. Jmo

[wufan]

You are a very positive and optimistic person and that is to be admired. I wouldn't disagree that business is not inherently bad. However, absent the values that were brought to this earth by Jesus Christ, it is difficult to defend that people are inherently good. It tends to be about the powerful. Jmo

There are only three possible premises (with various arguments of degree between the sentiments):

* Man is inherently good
* Man is inherently evil
* Man is made good/evil by his environment

Interestingly, all three of these ideas are held to be true by various denominations of Tinitarian Christianity.

I also believe that when selecting a government to rule, one must ask which they believe and vote accordingly.

[shock]

Thanks Mr. Buffett.

Any time.

[WuDrWu]

I would take the ethical decisions of a business, small or large, over the ethical decision of government every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[ShockTalk]

I would take the ethical decisions of a business, small or large, over the ethical decision of government every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Doc, I'm a far stretch from a bleeding liberal, however, over the years I've gone from agreeing with your statement to wondering just how many firms out there don't even bother to consider ethical decisions. Cronyism in business is just as bad as when it is in government and it exists. I don't know that one can just make a blanket statement as that.

[WuDrWu]

Doc, I'm a far stretch from a bleeding liberal, however, over the years I've gone from agreeing with your statement to wondering just how many firms out there don't even bother to consider ethical decisions. Cronyism in business is just as bad as when it is in government and it exists. I don't know that one can just make a blanket statement as that.

Don't get me wrong. I know there are bad people out there. And I'm not saying there are easy fixes. I want to protect people from bad guys just as much as anyone.

But we've gone too far. Way too far. People are becoming less self sufficient. They won't protect themselves. Or don't think they can. We must go in the other direction.

[Kung Wu]

Cronyism in business is just as bad as when it is in government and it exists.

I'm not sure you mean "cronyism". If I start and own a business, and I promote my son or trusted colleague to a leadership role instead of other longer term employees, that's cronyism. And there's nothing inherently wrong with it as long as I am adhering to the business' by laws. When that occurs in a public entity, that's a whole 'nother ballgame for obvious reasons and is particularly nasty.

So I think you meant "crony capitalism", where businesses get in bed with politicians to get favorable laws passed? But if you did mean that, then your original "versus" comparison doesn't make sense to me.

So now I'm not sure. Did you mean "cronyism"?

[wu_shizzle]

Prerequisite for this discussion: https://youtu.be/EYW5I96h-9w

[wu_shizzle]

It's not generally in the financial interest of a business to harm its customers.

The most likely entity to harm it's customers are those with legal monopolies, and high barriers of entry. IE Governments and government controlled and regulated businesses.

[wufan]

Regulations and restrictions give incentives to those that which to make money dishonestly. Where there is restrictive law and regulation, that is where you will find powerful organized crime.

[shockmonster]

Regulations and restrictions give incentives to those that which to make money dishonestly. Where there is restrictive law and regulation, that is where you will find powerful organized crime.

There needs to be a little balance in this discussion, lest we forget our history.

This is what they were called when there were no restrictions.

Robber Baron was a term applied to a businessman in the 19th century who engaged in unethical and monopolistic practices, wielded widespread political influence, and amassed enormous wealth.

[wufan]

There needs to be a little balance in this discussion, lest we forget our history.

This is what they were called when there were no restrictions.

Robber Baron was a term applied to a businessman in the 19th century who engaged in unethical and monopolistic practices, wielded widespread political influence, and amassed enormous wealth.

I am in agreement that there must be laws which are enforced. I do not believe in laissez-faire any more than I believe in anarchy, but a federal government should only concern itself with very few things, and the states shall handle the rest.

[shockmonster]

If we are honest and balanced in what we say, we have to recognize that big business has been in bed with some level of government from the beginning of time (whether it be local/state or national government). Some of our earliest was when man stole water from others. The latest example we have are man made earthquakes.

[Aargh]

I am in agreement that there must be laws which are enforced. I do not believe in laissez-faire any more than I believe in anarchy, but a federal government should only concern itself with very few things, and the states shall handle the rest.

So, then Kansas makes absolutely no regulations about pollution, emissions, etc. Creates an environment where pollution is totally unregulated, and gives tax incentives for placing polluting businesses right on the Nebraska border, so most of the airborne pollutants end up there.

Nebraska figures that if they're getting the pollution anyway, they may as well have the businesses that create it, so they match Kansas laws on pollution and create a 50 hour work week before overtime is paid. The businesses that had been in Kansas just move across the border.

Now what does Kansas do?

[Kung Wu]

So, then Kansas makes absolutely no regulations about pollution, emissions, etc. Creates an environment where pollution is totally unregulated, and gives tax incentives for placing polluting businesses right on the Nebraska border, so most of the airborne pollutants end up there.

Nebraska figures that if they're getting the pollution anyway, they may as well have the businesses that create it, so they match Kansas laws on pollution and create a 50 hour work week before overtime is paid. The businesses that had been in Kansas just move across the border.

Now what does Kansas do?

Give a major tax deduction to any company that wants to freely pollute in Lawrence!