Trump

[wufan]

Something I haven't picked up on and would appreciate an explanation:

Why would Russia back Trump over Hillary? I can come up with lots of plausible conspiracy theories (Trump is a corrupt capitalist that will weaken the US, Trump enlisted their help for future favors, Trump is being blackmailed), but any real reasons?

Finally, while the attempt is pretty clear, it's really weak in what it actually did. Fake news stories...these came from all over and against both candidates. Retweets are more of the same. Wikileaks was the only real thing. Were those really any more damaging to Hillary than the ***** grab audio or the 5 women that were raped was to Trump?

[jdshock]

It's not fake news, but it is a witch hunt. As I've said over and over, foreigners meddling, or attempting to meddle on our elections is nothing new. Our meddling, or attempting to meddle in foreign elections is nothing new, either. Furthermore, had Clinton won, there would have been little more than a sidenote, if even that.

Our intelligence community has the task of preventing meddling. They were asleep ay the switch. Moreover, the Democrats were in charge at the time, not Trump, so any meddling really comes back to themselves. Instead, we get whining, crying and gnashing of teeth. It's tiresome.

This is a witch hunt only because foreign meddling happens every election. No votes were illegally cast, nor were any suppressed by any interference, so the tally wasn't altered, and the anger and investigations are being misdirected at a candidate, rather than the administration that was in charge of preventing interference.

When you look at it from the outside, the misdirected anger is pretty humorous.

You keep saying this, but it does nothing to actually resolve what happened. Foreign countries invade each other regularly. We do the same. If anyone did it to us, would you say "eh... Forget about it. Everyone does it."

[jdshock]

Why would Russia back Trump over Hillary? I can come up with lots of plausible conspiracy theories (Trump is a corrupt capitalist that will weaken the US, Trump enlisted their help for future favors, Trump is being blackmailed), but any real reasons?

This shouldn't be an argument that Russia didn't back Trump but an argument against Trump. We objectively know Russia wanted Trump to win, so if the "why" isn't clear, it doesn't change the fact that it happened.

The evidence sure makes it look like Russia received promises from the Trump campaign that would make them prefer him. The sanctions response in December alone should be worrying. The WaPo article really did a great job. I'm blown away that someone could read the full, incredibly lengthy article and come away thinking Obama is the only one with egg on his face.

[wufan]

This shouldn't be an argument that Russia didn't back Trump but an argument against Trump. We objectively know Russia wanted Trump to win, so if the "why" isn't clear, it doesn't change the fact that it happened.

The evidence sure makes it look like Russia received promises from the Trump campaign that would make them prefer him. The sanctions response in December alone should be worrying. The WaPo article really did a great job. I'm blown away that someone could read the full, incredibly lengthy article and come away thinking Obama is the only one with egg on his face.

I didn't say anything about Obama having egg on his face, so I will assume that isn't pointed at me. I agree that this happened, but why? Certainly we should try and determine why Trump over Hillary, but should we assume that Trump promised something? I think not.

[pinstripers]

It's not fake news, but it is a witch hunt. As I've said over and over, foreigners meddling, or attempting to meddle on our elections is nothing new. Our meddling, or attempting to meddle in foreign elections is nothing new, either. Furthermore, had Clinton won, there would have been little more than a sidenote, if even that.

Our intelligence community has the task of preventing meddling. They were asleep ay the switch. Moreover, the Democrats were in charge at the time, not Trump, so any meddling really comes back to themselves. Instead, we get whining, crying and gnashing of teeth. It's tiresome.

This is a witch hunt only because foreign meddling happens every election. No votes were illegally cast, nor were any suppressed by any interference, so the tally wasn't altered, and the anger and investigations are being misdirected at a candidate, rather than the administration that was in charge of preventing interference.

When you look at it from the outside, the misdirected anger is pretty humorous.

This is exactly right.

[pinstripers]

"Collusion" is fake news.

[WuDrWu]

This shouldn't be an argument that Russia didn't back Trump but an argument against Trump. We objectively know Russia wanted Trump to win, so if the "why" isn't clear, it doesn't change the fact that it happened.

The evidence sure makes it look like Russia received promises from the Trump campaign that would make them prefer him. The sanctions response in December alone should be worrying. The WaPo article really did a great job. I'm blown away that someone could read the full, incredibly lengthy article and come away thinking Obama is the only one with egg on his face.

Tell me who would have been ultimately responsible for seeing to it that this didn't happen? Trump or Obama? This thinking is what is infuriating. There might be 2 or 3 solid Trump supporters on this forum. Maybe. Most GOP types are not happy with the way he's conducted himself, now or as a candidate.

The assumption from you, and so many like you in the media etc, have been saying, and now are fully immersed in the "Russia has in fact hacked, and Trump is responsible, and they changed the election".

I know very few people, if any, that think Russia didn't interfere. I don't anybody that wants them to, then or now. I want them to stop, and if they don't, I want us to retaliate.

Obama was the leader when it happened. He wasn't successful in preventing or stopping further activity. I imagine Trump will be more successful. Edge Trump.

There is egg on Obama. There is a TON of egg on the DNC. Why do you continue to blame the shortcomings of your own party on Trump? If the Dems were competent at all, you'd have your way. I don't know 1 person that changed a vote because of "Russian hacking", which by the way, didn't alter 1 vote, and didn't unearth anything but truths.

There is NO evidence of collusion. How does that become, Trump was in collusion with Russia? Only in the media and the Democratic party I guess.

This ENTIRE fiasco is the fault of President Obama and the Democratic Party, period. Stop blaming others.


Conclusion:

Obama and the DEMS are responsible for allowing the Russians to get away with what they did. Then they did nothing about it. As usual under the Obama presidency.

All the Russians did was uncover truths.

No votes were altered.

The outcome of the election was not changed.

There was no "collusion".

Nobody wants it to happen again.

We now at least have someone in the White House who isn't afraid to try and keep it from happening.

[wufan]

The Russian bots also retweeted pro-Trump sentiments. So there is that. :)

[jdshock]

In regards to the collusion point - there is not nearly enough evidence to say definitively there was collusion. There's a lot of smoke, though. Just the number of people attached to Trump who said "a Russian?! I've never met one!" and then later "well, yeah, I did meet that ambassador a couple times."

In regards to changing the election - I just don't get how you could possibly believe it didn't affect a single vote. You honestly believe the "truth" that was revealed didn't cause a single person to change their mind? Or cause a single person to not show up? Or cause a single person to reluctantly cast a vote for Trump?

We can argue over and over again about whether what was revealed was the "truth," whether it was a big deal, or whether we should just be mad at the DNC. But it's absurd to think the leaks had no effect.

Lastly, to anyone saying "yeah, most people understand Russia was involved"- Trump has been the most adamant that the whole thing is a "hoax."

[MoValley John]

You keep saying this, but it does nothing to actually resolve what happened. Foreign countries invade each other regularly. We do the same. If anyone did it to us, would you say "eh... Forget about it. Everyone does it."

You can't change the past, you can only do a better job of preventing it in the future. Period. If you want to blame someone, Blame Obama, he was in charge.

The problem is every Clinton supporter that is in denial and can't/won't accept the outcome. Instead of looking inward at a very flawed candidate they supported, and instead of looking at the cheating/dishonesty of the DNC, they lash out at Russia. Had the DNC not cheated, and had your party long done away with superdelegates, it's quite possible Sanders would be in the White House right now. Russia had bery little to do with that.

And Putin hates Hillary because Nill Colluded with Yeltsin to keep Yeltsin in the Kremlin.

[MoValley John]

You act as if there is not an investigation going on regarding trump and russia. Has the investigation concluded? No, so you can't say for sure that there is or is not collusion. This isn't a diffcult concept people.

Sure. But relax. You are acting like a baby.

[jdshock]

Let me try to explain it from this side... Everyone thinks I'm blaming Trump for whatever happened. I'm blaming Russia.

Trump's unwillingness to blame Russia is the issue. His unwillingness to point out their wrongdoing means I think he's either 1. Incompetent or 2. Guilty.

What other explanation would there be for him still calling it a hoax, fake news, etc.?

[MoValley John]

Lol, you are definitively saying no collusion which is misleading and simply not true

I've never said that.

[MoValley John]

I have only said any "tampering" didn't add phony votes or suppress any actual votes.

Also, there is no recourse for any of Russia's actions.

[MoValley John]

.