Trump

[shocka khan]

I wouldn't be so opposed to government aid to the poor if I had the sense that those receiving would see it as a blessing and be thankful for it, as opposed to being a right. It's not a right.

Our economy works because of freedom and capitalism. If the welfare state continues to grow, our economy cannot support it forever. And I firmly believe that Western socialist societies can exist in no small part because there is a strong capitalist America that develops the technological advancements, military and commerce apparatus to the world, so that they can skirt some of the responsibilities of a sovereign nation and provide a welfare system to their much smaller population and claim it's a success.

While you're up on your soapbox bashing poor people, please don't forget corporate welfare - especially defense contractors. Take Boeing, for example. They were supposed to build a virtual fence in Arizona on the Mexican border. It was an utter failure. We didn't make them remedy the contractual deficiency, we simply looked the other way. Note that this was done during a republican administration.

Beating up on the poor is easy. Beating up on companies like Boeing, who are politically connected isn't. We either need to cut welfare Waaaaayyyy back among government defense contractors (and other tax breaks that shift the tax burden to the middle class) or we're being hypocritical.

You can't advocate for smaller, more limited government on the one hand, and throwing money at the military-industrial complex (who waste it). How about some accountability in this process?

[Kung Wu]

I guess you're not a libertarian after all. Either that, or I'm calling bullshit on your comment. You advocate for a smaller, more limited government for people, and yet you want a law to protect you from an issue that has, in all probability, never impacted you directly.

True definition of a tax and spend liberal, right there. Exhibit 1.

Huh?

[shocka khan]

And the song remains the same.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/15/us/politics/15fence.html

I wonder if Donald Trump was paying attention to this when it happened. I voted for Trump, but I'm not sure this border wall is a good idea.

On the other hand, I'm all for prosecuting and expelling illegals.

[WuDrWu]

Come on, man. You know that pro-choice folks don't consider a fetus a human being. An abortion debate would be worse than the silly debate we're having about athlete benefits. You might not agree with it, but it's at least internally consistent.

Conservatives are much more susceptible to claims of hypocrisy:

You're kidding right? I mean, this meme is totally made up. Conservative Christians all over this country are waiting to adopt kids. Now, if you want to argue that Conservatives want people to be responsible, then ok. Don't talk to me about hypocrisy.

How about just not making death the first option? I know, that's a tragic thought for you. This is why intelligent liberals are the worst. You'll argue anything. I'm sure you're going to counter my comments with some garbage about how most of these women are held down by white men.

Be responsible. Don't use death as a form of birth control. Don't make mistake after mistake.

For the record, as a staunch conservative, I'm all for MORE assistance for mothers to give them a hand up on life. There are a number of ways we could assist them in getting ahead start on life if they've made a poor choice or worse, forced into a tough choice. But there are always options. Stop making death a convenience.

[jdshock]

You're kidding right? I mean, this meme is totally made up. Conservative Christians all over this country are waiting to adopt kids. Now, if you want to argue that Conservatives want people to be responsible, then ok. Don't talk to me about hypocrisy.

How about just not making death the first option? I know, that's a tragic thought for you. This is why intelligent liberals are the worst. You'll argue anything. I'm sure you're going to counter my comments with some garbage about how most of these women are held down by white men.

Be responsible. Don't use death as a form of birth control. Don't make mistake after mistake.

For the record, as a staunch conservative, I'm all for MORE assistance for mothers to give them a hand up on life. There are a number of ways we could assist them in getting ahead start on life if they've made a poor choice or worse, forced into a tough choice. But there are always options. Stop making death a convenience.

I'll tell you the same thing that I told KW: it's not a "death" to most pro-choice people. I get that that is the perspective of most pro-life folks, but that's just not what pro-choice folks think.

I'm not sure when I've ever countered arguments with "some garbage about how most of these women are held down by white men."

[ShockerPrez]

While you're up on your soapbox bashing poor people, please don't forget corporate welfare - especially defense contractors. Take Boeing, for example. They were supposed to build a virtual fence in Arizona on the Mexican border. It was an utter failure. We didn't make them remedy the contractual deficiency, we simply looked the other way. Note that this was done during a republican administration.

Beating up on the poor is easy. Beating up on companies like Boeing, who are politically connected isn't. We either need to cut welfare Waaaaayyyy back among government defense contractors (and other tax breaks that shift the tax burden to the middle class) or we're being hypocritical.

You can't advocate for smaller, more limited government on the one hand, and throwing money at the military-industrial complex (who waste it). How about some accountability in this process?

I dont disagree one bit. I am against tax breaks for corporations 100% at a federal level.

If a corporation gets a federal contract to do a job they should do it and if not, their needs to be consequences.

There is way too much funding going around to political friends.

[pinstripers]

Come on, man. You know that pro-choice folks don't consider a fetus a human being. [/IMG]

That's what they say, but they know better.

[WuDrWu]

I'll tell you the same thing that I told KW: it's not a "death" to most pro-choice people.

1) I don't think this is true. I think some people ARGUE that, but I don't believe that any human beyond a tiny minority actually BELIEVE it's not a death of a human.

2)It's not perspective, it's a fact. It is a human life. And abortion terminates it. You want to argue legal rights, ok. You want to argue viability ok.
All you're doing is trying to find a way to make the vast majority of people that are pro-abortion feel good about it. That's it.

3)One of the biggest reasons that a few of the folks out there think it's not a life and that abortion is ok, is because our government continues to sanction it and bend over backwards to make sure there are no consequences for it.

[ShockerPrez]

I was against Obama's trillion stimulus to his political donors, and I am against Trump's stimulus on infrastructure. Period.

I don't believe in government spending under the guise of economic stimulus at all. Economic growth does not come from Washington redistributing it.

[moshock]

If a heart stops beating permanently - someone dies

[Kung Wu]

Come on, man. You know that pro-choice folks don't consider a fetus a human being. An abortion debate would be worse than the silly debate we're having about athlete benefits.

Actually, both sides agree that it's a fetus. The question is, if we did a DNA test on it ... what species is it? I mean, you do believe in evolution don't ya?

[jdshock]

@Kung Wu: successfully started an abortion debate, derailing a legitimate discussion about a separate subject.

The best part about this "debate" is that there are 100 people saying "abortion = murder" and me just saying that the other side has a different starting point when defining life. You can think abortion is wrong, but it's not persuasive to frame your arguments in a way that just fail at step one from a different perspective.

Or, you know, maybe you will convince some people that abortion is wrong by shouting at them in the parking lot of planned parenthood.

[shocka khan]

@Kung Wu: successfully started an abortion debate, derailing a legitimate discussion about a separate subject.

The best part about this "debate" is that there are 100 people saying "abortion = murder" and me just saying that the other side has a different starting point when defining life. You can think abortion is wrong, but it's not persuasive to frame your arguments in a way that just fail at step one from a different perspective.

Or, you know, maybe you will convince some people that abortion is wrong by shouting at them in the parking lot of planned parenthood.

Or perhaps you could do the Christian thing and shoot them during church services. Isn't that what happened to George Tiller?

[Kung Wu]

If a heart stops beating permanently - someone dies

Boom. You know what, BOOM again! Actually this is worth at least one third and final BOOOOOM!!!

[Kung Wu]

@Kung Wu successfully started an abortion debate, derailing a legitimate discussion about a separate subject.

Guilty. LOL!