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  • Fraud....
    There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese.

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    • Originally posted by MoValley John View Post
      You mean my liwer link from the US Justice Department? Where PP agreed to pay the government after being caught? You want to simply dismiss that? That isn't the only time PP has lost to the government. But like I said, this is an entrenched issue. And unlike other healthcare providers that risk being defunded if they continually defraud medicare/medicaide, PP has the political clout to just keep rolling along.
      I don't think you understand my question. It doesn't really matter.

      I'm saying those are reasons why Planned Parenthood might not be deserving of money. Those are not independent reports that conclude we should defund Planned Parenthood. You sold it as if there was an investigative report done on the benefits and disadvantages and economic impacts and ultimately concluded we should defund it. You're sending me instances where PP screwed up. That's a compelling argument. It's just not what you said there was. If that exists, that's what I'm interested in reading.

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      • Originally posted by jdshock View Post
        I don't think you understand my question. It doesn't really matter.

        I'm saying those are reasons why Planned Parenthood might not be deserving of money. Those are not independent reports that conclude we should defund Planned Parenthood. You sold it as if there was an investigative report done on the benefits and disadvantages and economic impacts and ultimately concluded we should defund it. You're sending me instances where PP screwed up. That's a compelling argument. It's just not what you said there was. If that exists, that's what I'm interested in reading.
        Planned Parenthood didn't simply screw up. Planned Parenthood has an extensive history of getting caught. When you refer to PP as screwing up, almost innocently, you show a complete lack of understanding to what degree medical institutions work at avoiding medicare/Medicaid fraud charges. Patient charting is designed to prevent "screwing up" medicade charges. Hospital coding, once again, prevents "screw ups" as does every check and balance along the way. Healthcare providers care more than you can even know about keeping their medicare/medicade funding. Legitimate organizations may make a mistake, they don't repeat mistakes. Planned Parenthood repeats them.

        Once again, an entrenched position.
        There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese.

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        • I've always been curious for the left to outline exactly what their dream USA looks like. What's the goal at the end of it all? At what point do you stand back and say, 'We have arrived'. 'The USA is now the best country ever!' I seriously have never heard what America looks like in their ultimate utopia.

          What does America look like if they got everything they wanted? And if they were to imagine that day, would they really want it? And do they really believe it's possible?
          "When life hands you lemons, make lemonade." Better have some sugar and water too, or else your lemonade will suck!

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          • Originally posted by MoValley John View Post
            Planned Parenthood didn't simply screw up. Planned Parenthood has an extensive history of getting caught. When you refer to PP as screwing up, almost innocently, you show a complete lack of understanding to what degree medical institutions work at avoiding medicare/Medicaid fraud charges. Patient charting is designed to prevent "screwing up" medicade charges. Hospital coding, once again, prevents "screw ups" as does every check and balance along the way. Healthcare providers care more than you can even know about keeping their medicare/medicade funding. Legitimate organizations may make a mistake, they don't repeat mistakes. Planned Parenthood repeats them.

            Once again, an entrenched position.
            You're the one who said "independent government reviews have recommended defunding PP." That's all I've been interested in.

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            • Real question: is there a legitimate proposal for defunding women's healthcare, or is the discussion around defending Planned Parenthood?

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              • Originally posted by ShockerPrez View Post
                I've always been curious for the left to outline exactly what their dream USA looks like. What's the goal at the end of it all? At what point do you stand back and say, 'We have arrived'. 'The USA is now the best country ever!' I seriously have never heard what America looks like in their ultimate utopia.

                What does America look like if they got everything they wanted? And if they were to imagine that day, would they really want it? And do they really believe it's possible?


                A
                kindhearted, more diverse military for starters ... Because as they've demonstrated over the last 6 weeks, they've got nothing but love to give.

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                • I thought the Trumps dancing with the military folks during the inaugural balls was really cool. You could tell the meaning it had for those service men and women.

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                  • Originally posted by ShockerPrez View Post
                    I've always been curious for the left to outline exactly what their dream USA looks like. What's the goal at the end of it all? At what point do you stand back and say, 'We have arrived'. 'The USA is now the best country ever!' I seriously have never heard what America looks like in their ultimate utopia.

                    What does America look like if they got everything they wanted? And if they were to imagine that day, would they really want it? And do they really believe it's possible?
                    I have kind of envisioned what I think that could mean. AND IT SCARED THE S--T OUT OF ME. However the dream still remains, as we've seen over the last 7 days.

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                    • Originally posted by jdshock View Post
                      Are you referring to the questions about the various movements? I'm not sure there's much potential for a great discussion on those topics. I don't believe the various movements pushing for women's and minorities' rights are exclusionary. It's hard to point to evidence because I don't know what it would look like on this topic. When I say I support women's rights and am behind that movement, I don't mean women are better than men or something. I've never met someone that did. Because of that, I think it's just a difference of opinion.

                      I do think your point about progressives and special people is a valid criticism of many individual progressives. It's certainly not the goal of the progressive movement, by its definition. I have met liberals that appear to view it that way, though, and they give the movement a bad name.
                      Thank you for the response. I realize I asked a series of broad-based, open-ended questions that can be difficult to answer. The media seems to mostly cover those on the left that want something special for some special group. What is the social platform of the progressive party? I'm going to do some reading, but would also like the opinion of a party member.
                      Livin the dream

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                      • Hope it's gains some steam. People like to feel safe.

                        Last edited by ShockingButTrue; January 23, 2017, 09:08 PM.

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                        • The Presidnet has a lot of potential to turn things around for us. I just don't understand why he says some of the things he does. For example why did he bring up the idea that he lost the popular vote due to illegal voting? Just let it go, you are the President after all.

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                          • Originally posted by dwbarcl View Post
                            The Presidnet has a lot of potential to turn things around for us. I just don't understand why he says some of the things he does. For example why did he bring up the idea that he lost the popular vote due to illegal voting? Just let it go, you are the President after all.
                            Agree with this.

                            It seems like his administration will really get bogged down with his vanity. How he was screwed out of the popular vote, the alternative fact that he had the biggest crowd ever for an inauguration, etc. Who cares about that stuff, Donald? Let's try and govern.

                            I disagreed with plenty of President Obama's policies over the last eight years but I am amazed at how quickly I miss having a President that acts...presidential. I realize that means little to the Trump supporters because "he tells it like it is" and "isn't a pansy" but it seems like the regal quality and nature of that particular office is going to decay. And it's a real shame.

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                            • Originally posted by LuskingforGuttin View Post
                              Agree with this.

                              It seems like his administration will really get bogged down with his vanity. How he was screwed out of the popular vote, the alternative fact that he had the biggest crowd ever for an inauguration, etc. Who cares about that stuff, Donald? Let's try and govern.

                              I disagreed with plenty of President Obama's policies over the last eight years but I am amazed at how quickly I miss having a President that acts...presidential. I realize that means little to the Trump supporters because "he tells it like it is" and "isn't a pansy" but it seems like the regal quality and nature of that particular office is going to decay. And it's a real shame.
                              I would disagree that Obama acted presidential. His obsession with Fox News and blaming his predecessor for all his trouble were petty in their own right.
                              "When life hands you lemons, make lemonade." Better have some sugar and water too, or else your lemonade will suck!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ShockerPrez View Post
                                I would disagree that Obama acted presidential. His obsession with Fox News and blaming his predecessor for all his trouble were petty in their own right.
                                You can definitely throw in the times where he saluted the Marines with a coffee mug in his hand while exiting Marine 1, bowing to world leaders when he went on apology tours, and how he sounded pretty ridiculous whenever a teleprompter went out as some highlights of Obama's behavior that wasn't presidential. To me, the most un-presidential behavior President Obama exhibited was his need to inject himself in local occurrences that happened throughout the country. The Henry Louis Gates incident, Mike Brown, Mizzou, etc., it seeemed like he was hell bent on commenting on all of this before investigations or having the facts and it has really created some divides in this country not to mention it has made law enforcement's job even more dangerous than it already is by cultivating hostility throughout the country. He had a great amount of help from the media though.

                                Let's not forget Biden lol...that guy is a gaffe machine as well as creepy.

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