Ben Carson

[tropicalshox]

Did anybody watch the interview he did yesterday on CNN? More of the same.

[wufan]

Did anybody watch the interview he did yesterday on CNN? More of the same.

I wasn't really a fan of his before this (he was kind of eh to me) but I could get behind him now.

[SB Shock]

https://youtu.be/vMA0lCMtn_k

I think Ben has found his fire.

He could win if he keep this up....

[pinstripers]

http://www.ijreview.com/2015/11/465980-false-things-obama-said-about-his-bio-that-didnt-cause-the-media-to-go-into-full-meltdown/

[CBB_Fan]

I'll be honest, I'm starting to think Carson is a pathological liar. From wikipedia:

Defining characteristics of pathological lying include:

• The stories told are usually dazzling or fantastical, but never breach the limits of plausibility, which is key to the pathological liar's tact. The tales are not a manifestation of delusion or some broader type of psychosis; upon confrontation, the teller can admit them to be untrue, even if unwillingly.
• The fabricative tendency is chronic; it is not provoked by the immediate situation or social pressure so much as it is an innate trait of the personality. There is some element of dyscontrol present.
• A definitely internal, not an external, motive for the behavior can be discerned clinically: e.g., long-lasting extortion or habitual spousal battery might cause a person to lie repeatedly, without the lying being a pathological symptom.[2]
• The stories told tend toward presenting the liar favorably. The liar "decorates their own person"[3] by telling stories that present them as the hero or the victim. For example, the person might be presented as being fantastically brave, as knowing or being related to many famous people, or as having great power, position, or wealth.

Pathological lying may also present as false memory syndrome, where the sufferer genuinely believes that fictitious (imagined) events have taken place. The sufferer may believe that he or she has accomplished superhuman feats or awe-inspiring acts of altruism and love — or has committed equally grandiose acts of diabolical evil, for which the sufferer must atone, or indeed has already atoned in her/his fantasies.

That sounds exactly like what I'm seeing with Carson, especially the last bit. None of his stories breach the limits of plausibility, but when pressed you see that most of them have issues. He met with General Westmoreland who offered him a scholarship to West Point, except Westmoreland wasn't in Detroit at the time and West Point isn't a normal university with tuition. He got held up a Popeye's, except the story wasn't in his biography, he is a vegetarian, and there is no records of that any such event at that Popeye's.

All of these stories are embellishments that serve to make him look better. He wasn't just a smart medical student, no, he was also highly prized by the military. When people called him out for looking meek, he reveals his diabolical evil past that he atoned from by plunging into his faith, simultaneously looking tough and appealing to the Christian base. IMHO, this fits the pathological liar description very well. Semi-plausible stories with zero evidence that serve only to embellish him, whose inaccuracies can be explained away as a function of bad memory. And when accused of lying, just yell and blame the liberal media; it works. The Republican base loves when people call out the media, and after the Cruz incident at the last debate they are particularly attuned to it.

[shox1989]

I'll be honest, I'm starting to think Carson is a pathological liar. From wikipedia:



That sounds exactly like what I'm seeing with Carson, especially the last bit. None of his stories breach the limits of plausibility, but when pressed you see that most of them have issues. He met with General Westmoreland who offered him a scholarship to West Point, except Westmoreland wasn't in Detroit at the time and West Point isn't a normal university with tuition. He got held up a Popeye's, except the story wasn't in his biography, he is a vegetarian, and there is no records of that any such event at that Popeye's.

All of these stories are embellishments that serve to make him look better. He wasn't just a smart medical student, no, he was also highly prized by the military. When people called him out for looking meek, he reveals his diabolical evil past that he atoned from by plunging into his faith, simultaneously looking tough and appealing to the Christian base. IMHO, this fits the pathological liar description very well. Semi-plausible stories with zero evidence that serve only to embellish him, whose inaccuracies can be explained away as a function of bad memory. And when accused of lying, just yell and blame the liberal media; it works. The Republican base loves when people call out the media, and after the Cruz incident at the last debate they are particularly attuned to it.

I liked him at first. But his debate performances have been underwhelming to me. And now I have been wondering the same thing. I am really beginning to believe he is a pathological liar. Out of all of these choices of candidates I am really having a hard time finding one I like.

[wufan]

Pathological liar? What? You all are nuts!

[shock]

Pathological liar? What? You all are nuts!

They misspelled Clinton.

[Rlh04d]

It's not a scholarship, but I can see where a kid that didn't apply would view it as one.

This is where I see this as a non-story. He was a kid, and nothing in the story strikes me as anything completely unbelievable, so much as a squishy memory from his borderline childhood. If a General was offering him a letter of recommendation to Westpoint, I think it's very plausible he remembers that as "being offered a scholarship." The only part of that which would bother me is the poor editorial work on his book.

I know the Naval Academy used to contact me a lot after I took the ASVAB the first time around. I don't remember much of the context that went into that, though, and I'm much younger than Dr. Carson. I also had a lot of contact with Duke when I was in middle school -- at this point I have no clue what that was about. I could probably do some research into what kind of outreach programs Duke has with middle schools to find out, but hell if I remember now. (Edit: And with a quick Google search that was really easy to figure out: Duke's TIP Summer Studies Program.)

Now if the meeting with that specific General never happened, I would consider that a warning sign.

[CBB_Fan]

They misspelled Clinton.

Clinton lies all the time, but she lies to cover up her problems and past lies. That doesn't fit the bill of what I posted.

• The stories told tend toward presenting the liar favorably. The liar "decorates their own person"[3] by telling stories that present them as the hero or the victim. For example, the person might be presented as being fantastically brave, as knowing or being related to many famous people, or as having great power, position, or wealth.

Carson's plausible lies are stories that showcase him in a positive light, Clinton's lies are cover-ups. It is the difference between being actually dishonest and possibly having a mental disorder that compels frequent lies. From the same page:

Lying is the act of both knowingly and intentionally/willfully making a false statement.[7] Most people do so out of fear.[8] Normal lies are defensive, and are told to avoid the consequences of truth telling. They are often white lies that spare another's feelings, reflect a pro-social attitude, and make civilized human contact possible.[4] Pathological lying is considered a mental illness, because it takes over rational judgment and progresses into the fantasy world and back.[9]

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

I think some of you are confusing General Westmoreland with the actual service academy.

If he tells a kid to apply and allegedly offers to write a rec, that doesn't mean the kid was offered admission.

The more and more I think about it, the more I come to realize that we seem to be losing focus of the most important part of the story. What difference does it make? (to quote Hillary)

Does an “I can get you in” from a 4 star general equal signed paperwork of admission? Close, but no, technically not equal.
Does being the top ROTC high schooler in the city of Detroit automatically get you in? Should be a near slam dunk, but no, not quite automatic.
Is it possible that Carson is legally, technically, nit-pickingly wrong to say he “was offered a full ride”? I guess a reasonable person could stand by that technical assessment.

But what difference does that all make?

A: I had a 99% chance of getting into West Point, but I chose medicine at Yale instead.
B: I had a 100% chance of getting into West Point, but I chose medicine at Yale instead.

We are literally having a national debate into the complex, precise meaning of words and phrases to determine if A or B is most correct. Yet at the end of the day, in both cases, Ben Carson was a highly qualified high schooler who had a choice between two respected institutions that he was fully qualified for, and he chose Yale over West Point and now looks back at that choice as a major milestone in his life.

Talk about a scandal!!!

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

I mean, if a KU basketball player said “I was offered a full ride at Yale, but I chose KU basketball instead”, I think we could call that a serious exaggeration to make himself look better than he really is.

A world famous neuro-surgeon who was very highly ranked at ROTC in high school claims he was offered a scholarship to West Point and half the country gets all “No way you lie!”

I would be rolling on the floor laughing if this whole thing wasn’t so depressing.

[wu_shizzle]

I would be rolling on the floor laughing if this whole thing wasn’t so depressing.

And hypocritical. Democrats never get this type of Proctology from the mainstream media.

The only reason we know anything damaging to Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, is because the new media of conservative internet and radio forced the mainstream media kicking and screaming to acknowledge all of these scandals.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

How could he be offered a scholarship to a school where scholarships don't exist and he wasn't admitted?

"Where scholarships don't exist"? Really?

[jdshock]

"Where scholarships don't exist"? Really?

Yeah, admittedly they have called it scholarships in some of their documents. Kung Wu beat you to the punch by a lot. I think it's a weird way to phrase it (Carson's wording of saying, "I was offered a full scholarship."). The impressive thing would be being admitted to West Point since everyone would get a "full scholarship." I think he chose the wording he did in his book to make it seem even more impressive.

You also didn't address any of the other points. He was absolutely, without a doubt, never admitted so he was not "offered a scholarship." At the most, he was offered a recommendation letter.

I think most of these statements, (scholarship stuff, the stabbing portrayal), are probably half truths that were slightly fictionalized to sell more copies of his book at a time when he never expected to run for president. Like I said (and you ignored) a reasonable mind could think it's not a big deal and a reasonable mind could think it is a big deal. What I don't get is someone like you who was super worked up about the supplement company but super supportive of this one.