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Originally posted by Kung Wu
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Now that's what you call bad timing.....or good timing depending on your point of view. -
That is some embarrassing tap dancing by the campaign spokesman. Not a good one to double down on IMO - folks who have actually applied (or helped their kids apply) to a service academy can see through that rebuttal quickly.Comment
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Play Angry, I realize this story has been unfolding rapidly this afternoon, so maybe you don't have all the information.
Carson was the top ROTC student in Detroit. (Undisputed fact as far as I can tell)
Carson says his ROTC supervisors introduced him to some folks from West Point. (No reason to doubt this)
Carson says the West Point officials told him in person that they could recommend him for entry to West Point. (No reason to doubt this)
Carson thought about it but eventually declined and only applied to Yale. (No reason to doubt this)
Carson specifically said he never applied nor was formally admitted.
Never in the past did Carson say he applied for admission.
Never in the past did Carson say he was admitted.
Carson has always said he was "offered a scholarship". If those West Point folks told him they could pretty much get him in if he wanted to go, I call that an offer.
What is the controversy here, other than of course several media outlets have already called him a liar and made false claims?Last edited by Jamar Howard 4 President; November 6, 2015, 05:09 PM.Comment
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From the Politico story that started all this:
Talk about dishonest. They say "however, has no record of Carson applying". Well duh, Carson himself says he didn't apply. Of course there is no record.the then-17 year old was introduced in 1969 to Gen. William Westmoreland, who had just ended his command of U.S. forces in Vietnam, and the two dined together. That meeting, according to Carson’s telling, was followed by the offer of a “full scholarship” to the military academy.
West Point, however, has no record of Carson applying, much less being extended admissionComment
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An offer to make a recommendation =/= a "full scholarship offer from West Point.". It is instead one of many requirements in the process.
Granted, a young man in his position likely would have been admitted had he applied, although nothing can be taken for certain regarding passing the medical physical examination. But he did not, and no offer was made by the academy.
It is a little like saying " I ate dinner with Mitt Romney, who offered to write a recommendation letter for me at Harvard. I turned down Harvard's scholarship offer because I liked Stanford better." If the speaker did not apply to Harvard, then his statement is not really true regardless of the weight of the offered recommendation.
It is likely they encouraged him to apply, told him he had a good chance of acceptance, and offered to hook him up with a recommendation.Comment
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The text from the book is "Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point. I didn't refuse the scholarship outright, but I let them know that a military career wasn't where I saw myself going." How could he be offered a scholarship to a school where scholarships don't exist and he wasn't admitted?Originally posted by Jamar Howard 4 President View Post
Weren't you saying just a couple days ago that he was dishonest for calling it propaganda that he was involved with the supplement company? To me, these seem like the same thing. A reasonable mind could think neither one is a big deal or think both make him dishonest. I find it hard to believe that you could think one is bad and one is no big deal.Comment
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Here's the rub on the politico story: per a quick Google search: EVERY student that attends West Point gets a free education and salary in return for 5 years of military service.
If Carson was told that he could get in and that they would wright a recommendation, then they were in fact promising him a free education. It's not a scholarship, but I can see where a kid that didn't apply would view it as one.
Next.Livin the dreamComment
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I think some of you are confusing General Westmoreland with the actual service academy.
If he tells a kid to apply and allegedly offers to write a rec, that doesn't mean the kid was offered admission.Comment
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More than likely this is blown way out of proportion again. He didn't fabricate admission or a degree. It was literally 2 sentences explaining that powerful people thought highly of him and wrapping up why, although a stellar candidate for the academy, he didn't end up there.
Now, again, more than likely the original text was convoluted in many areas and its not inconceivable to anyone familiar with professional writing and dealing with third party editors that an editor slimmed down the the manuscript in many areas. This could be such an area, and saying "full scholarship" dumbs the text down enough to make it flow nicely but still get the point across. Moreover, had he or his editors known at the time that he would be heavily scrutinized as a serious candidate for the office of Presidency, minor details like this would have been tidied up and fixed.
I firmly believe that this is why Trump is running and why the establishment has given him as much play as he has gotten. They know that to get good candidates to the finish line, this type of mud slinging can't start early. This is crap media "vetting" that only harms and has killed many campaigns before they had a chance to leave the ground. Had Trump not run, the media would have started slinging mud 6 months ago to see what sticks it would have ruined the GOP and we would be discussing the finer points of Kasich and Bush and handles of Makers Mark would be flying off the shelf.People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. -Isaac Asimov
Originally posted by C0|dB|00ded
Who else posts fake **** all day in order to maintain the acrimony? Wingnuts, that's who.Comment
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Politico is where the Republican Establishment goes to anonymously trash Conservatives.
No doubt this started as Oppo research that got picked up for a Friday dump. Politico is usually better than this, but not by much."Don't measure yourself by what you have accomplished, but by what you should accomplish with your ability."
-John WoodenComment
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Right here in West Point's own prospectus it says, "As a cadet, you are a member of the U.S. Army and receive a full scholarship and an annual salary of more than $10,000 from which you pay for your uniforms, textbooks, a laptop computer, and incidentals." So, yeah, that's a term that West Point uses when recruiting and in their marketing materials.
Yup, this is the main stream media desperate to sling poop on Carson. Fail.Kung Wu say, man who read woman like book, prefer braille!Comment
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In 2015, if President Bardo writes a letter of recommendation to Wichita State University on behalf a prospective student, that kid gets accepted.
In 1969, if General Westmoreland writes a letter of recommendation to West Point on behalf of a prospective cadet, that kid gets accepted (and receives the "full scholarship" that comes with it). General Westmoreland, at that time, was not just a general. He was THE general.Kung Wu say, man who read woman like book, prefer braille!Comment
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"Don't measure yourself by what you have accomplished, but by what you should accomplish with your ability."
-John WoodenComment
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Finally. Man, I was really unsure about his ability under fire, under heavy personal fire, but he has just the right amount of anger to make it work. Carson/Cruz 2016!!Originally posted by wu_shizzle View PostPeople who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. -Isaac Asimov
Originally posted by C0|dB|00ded
Who else posts fake **** all day in order to maintain the acrimony? Wingnuts, that's who.Comment
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