Historic Scottish Succession Vote

[SB Shock]

Vote occured today, and when we wake up will know the results, but it looks like there will be some will be disputing the vote as CNN has posted:

Capture.JPG

[SB Shock]

looks like it will fail, Capture.jpg

[Kung Wu]

The people of Scotland wanted to break away so that they could become MORE socialist, not because they wanted to be less dependent on their government. It would actually be in the rest of the UK's best interest to let them go, because now they will have to make costly welfare concessions that nobody can afford.

[WuDrWu]

This, IF and only IF I have a decent grasp of the dynamics here, was an odd situation. I believe the reason they want to be more Socialist is because they have tremendous resources and export much more than they import which puts them in position to give things to the people, and could expand that advantage were they allowed to.....interesting situation, but then I could be completely off base too. Wanting more freedoms so that you can give away some of your freedoms for what seems like an easier life.

[Play Angry]

This, IF and only IF I have a decent grasp of the dynamics here, was an odd situation. I believe the reason they want to be more Socialist is because they have tremendous resources and export much more than they import which puts them in position to give things to the people, and could expand that advantage were they allowed to.....interesting situation, but then I could be completely off base too. Wanting more freedoms so that you can give away some of your freedoms for what seems like an easier life.

This is my understanding as well. Lots of comparisons to Texas, both in terms of their economy's size relative to the UK as a whole, and in terms of prospective self-sufficiency.

[RoyalShock]

I'm not terribly familiar with this situation, but had a discussion with a co-worker who is more informed. He said much of those extra resources are in the form of oil, of which you can't always rely on extraction/production remaining constant. If that is accurate, I would think it would be a long-term disaster for Scotland to create a more dependent society based on a revenue stream that may or may not be sustainable. Should the oil production ever drastically drop, you could see Greece-like riots and protests when services have to be cut.

[Play Angry]

I'm not terribly familiar with this situation, but had a discussion with a co-worker who is more informed. He said much of those extra resources are in the form of oil, of which you can't always rely on extraction/production remaining constant. If that is accurate, I would think it would be a long-term disaster for Scotland to create a more dependent society based on a revenue stream that may or may not be sustainable. Should the oil production ever drastically drop, you could see Greece-like riots and protests when services have to be cut.

Agreed- it is (almost) always a bad move to expand the welfare state.

That said, those Greece-like riots will probably happen eventually in most of the West given the pace of debt-to-GDP acceleration. Places not named Germany will have a helluva time leveraging up during the next crisis.

[shocka khan]

I'm laughing at some here that are criticizing Scotland for distributing their oil wealth because it's 'socialist'. What about Alaska and their permanent fund? They give a check to all citizens every year. Sara Palin and Sean Parnell, both republicans (and the past and present governors) didn't have problems with it.

http://pfd.alaska.gov/

And then there's this: "in 2008 Governor Sarah Palin signed Senate Bill 4002[14] that used revenues generated from the state’s natural resources and provided a one-time special payment of $1,200 to every Alaskan eligible for the Permanent Fund dividend."

So does that make Alaska a socialist state run by republicans?!? And what if the Scots set up a permanent investment fund that pays dividends like Alaska did? Would that then be as bad an idea as what's being discussed here?

[RoyalShock]

I think what makes one situation socialism and the other not, is that one is returned to the people either through government services or welfare based on perceived need. In other words, it's unequal distribution, controlled by the central government.

At least Alaska trusts its citizens to spend it the way they see fit. What else should Alaska do with all that money?

[shocka khan]

So you have the details of the 'Scottish plan'? Or is this speculation? I'd like to see details rather than labels. I'm interested in what the Scots are doing regards this. Most of Scotland is rural and remote. I'd be surprised if there were a lot of people sitting on their duffs waiting for $$$.

Most of the ranchers who settled west Texas during the days that the cattle were driven to Kansas traced their ancestry back to Scotland. I would hardly call their descendants a bunch of people who sat on their duff and waited for a paycheck. Those people worked hard. Many of them today are about the most conservative people you would meet. Most conservatives are responsible and expect it from others. Hard work and thrift are positive attributes of the Scots. Unfortunately, Haggis is definitely not a positive attribute of the Scottish culture.

[Kung Wu]

So you have the details of the 'Scottish plan'? Or is this speculation? I'd like to see details rather than labels. I'm interested in what the Scots are doing regards this. Most of Scotland is rural and remote. I'd be surprised if there were a lot of people sitting on their duffs waiting for $$$.

Most of the ranchers who settled west Texas during the days that the cattle were driven to Kansas traced their ancestry back to Scotland. I would hardly call their descendants a bunch of people who sat on their duff and waited for a paycheck. Those people worked hard. Many of them today are about the most conservative people you would meet. Most conservatives are responsible and expect it from others. Hard work and thrift are positive attributes of the Scots. Unfortunately, Haggis is definitely not a positive attribute of the Scottish culture.

You are not dead because you're riding in the back of a hearse. You are riding in the back of a hearse because you're dead.

[SB Shock]

Haggis is definitely not a positive attribute of the Scottish culture.

they go commando under their kilt, so that has to be a positive

[shocka khan]

SB Shock, thanks for the laugh!

[Veritas]

Spain is next, then Quebec, and then California and Texas.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

If Texas does, my wife and I are moving there.