Gridlock in Washington

[kcshocker11]

So? If our credit rating is so important, why won't Obama negotiate? He makes demands of Republicans, but will give an inch. I guess neither the Repubs nor the Dems care about our credit rating.

The debt ceiling isnt for negotiations no matter what party is in office. The Congress spent the money and now wants Obama to negotiate on paying the bills Congress spent. Pay your bills!

[CBB_Fan]

So? If our credit rating is so important, why won't Obama negotiate? He makes demands of Republicans, but will give an inch. I guess neither the Repubs nor the Dems care about our credit rating.

While I'd assume that Obama is in lockstep with the Senate Dems, his input has zero meaning at this stage. If the House and Senate aren't negotiating with each other, the President is irrelevant. Still, I hold the Republicans more at fault in this case, because they are the ones trying to use the debt ceiling to force change in their favor, whereas the Democrats are mostly fighting for the status quo. The Democrats should not have to negotiate with the Republicans, because the right shouldn't be willing to cause billions of dollars of economic damage to get what they want.

Though even having a debt ceiling is silly. The only purpose a debt ceiling could have is to allow political blackmail like we've seen so far. Pragmatically, it serves no purpose and only causes problems, which is why no other country have a debt ceiling that they constantly have to raise.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

You are right. And credit cards should not have credit limits. People will be responsible, right?

Cant link them, but search what happened at the Wal-Marts in Louisiana when a few people realized that thier EBT cards limit had been removed. The emptied the shelves, and when announced that it had been fixed, they left carts full of groceries to spoil in the aisles.

The American public has no idea how to control themselves, and Congress is worse than the American people.

[pinstripers]

No one should ever have to negotiate with a Republican.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

The debt ceiling isnt for negotiations no matter what party is in office. The Congress spent the money and now wants Obama to negotiate on paying the bills Congress spent. Pay your bills!

What seems to be missing is that we couldnt pay them last year, we cant pay them this year, and we wont be able to pay them next year. At some point the bubble burst. I would rather it happen at 15 Trillion vs. 24 Trillion. That would be a bunch MORE bills that we couldnt afford to pay, and would completely kill The Unite States.

[MoValley John]

The debt ceiling isnt for negotiations no matter what party is in office. The Congress spent the money and now wants Obama to negotiate on paying the bills Congress spent. Pay your bills!

The threat to shut down the government and the debt ceiling another six months out is EXACTLY what caused George HW Bush to cave on his pledge of "Read my lips, no new taxes." Same exact thing, different timetable. One president put keeping the government operating over his own personal agenda, the other will not.

[RoyalShock]

The Democrats should not have to negotiate with the Republicans, because the right shouldn't be willing to cause billions of dollars of economic damage to get what they want.

What the Republicans want? How about what the American people want? They don't want ObamaCare anymore, yet the Dems won't listen. They didn't listen to anybody but themselves when they drafted the monstrosity, so it's hardly surprising they have their heads in the sand now. I bet if the media would stop feeding people half-truths about what could happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised, they wouldn't be freaking out so much about the tactics being used by the GOP to try and put off what the public doesn't want.

[SB Shock]

We have the debt ceiling in place to try and force the politicians to negotiate future cuts in spending to try and get things under control. If we had a responsible president, senate and house it would be needed - but we don't.

[WuDrWu]

While I would like to see ObamaCare stopped in it's tracks, it's not going to happen. I believe the GOP should hold out for making Congress and the President live with ObamaCare, with NO subsidies (I would like to see all the other waivers taken away as well and the President has no right to grant them) and keep the sequestrations as they are. Then improve upon the sequestration with the next debt limit raise in 6 weeks or whenever (soon).

That's the only thing I think they can "win" on now.

[CBB_Fan]

You are right. And credit cards should not have credit limits. People will be responsible, right?

Cant link them, but search what happened at the Wal-Marts in Louisiana when a few people realized that thier EBT cards limit had been removed. The emptied the shelves, and when announced that it had been fixed, they left carts full of groceries to spoil in the aisles.

The American public has no idea how to control themselves, and Congress is worse than the American people.

It is entirely possible to govern reasonably without a debt ceiling. The proof being the vast majority of countries that manage to get along without one. Now our Congress as it is may need the potential of severe repercussions to do anything, but that is not something that should be coddled and allowed to continue. We do not hold our politicians to high standards, and that is what allows them to act so foolishly and recklessly.

What the Republicans want? How about what the American people want? They don't want ObamaCare anymore, yet the Dems won't listen. They didn't listen to anybody but themselves when they drafted the monstrosity, so it's hardly surprising they have their heads in the sand now. I bet if the media would stop feeding people half-truths about what could happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised, they wouldn't be freaking out so much about the tactics being used by the GOP to try and put off what the public doesn't want.

This is not the time or place to negotiate Obamacare, and that is the problem. And even if Americans don't want Obamacare, it doesn't justify the use of whatever means available to sabotage the political process and get that accomplished. The ends do not justify the means, especially in a system like ours where the means are crucial to the democratic process.

Furthermore, while Americans aren't satisfied with the ACA, that doesn't not mean they want it repealed or defunded.

We have the debt ceiling in place to try and force the politicians to negotiate future cuts in spending to try and get things under control. If we had a responsible president, senate and house it would be needed - but we don't.

It is still childish governance, and going with it is much like a parent falling for a child's temper tantrum. It sets the line for more bad behavior to follow and hurts the entire process. We need to force our politicians to make sane decisions within the normal system, not allow them to use arbitrary deadlines and the nation's financial health as a hostage to accomplish political objectives. If they are incapable of doing their job and negotiating without the threat of collapse, then they shouldn't be in office.

[MoValley John]

For all those that think we should pass whatever just to get the government going and rais e the debt ceiling so we don't default, I have one question. When do we quit kicking the ball further out and actually fix something? It is easy to kick the ball, it is more difficult to address all of our budget problems. Now with your answer, keep inind that Obama, even with a supermajority in congress for two years, NEVER passed a budget. He claims one his first year, but it really wasn't a budget, it was six separate bills he construed as a budget. His second year, still with a supermajority, no budget from Obama.

So, when do we stop and fix the mess?

[RoyalShock]

For all those that think we should pass whatever just to get the government going and rais e the debt ceiling so we don't default, I have one question. When do we quit kicking the ball further out and actually fix something? It is easy to kick the ball, it is more difficult to address all of our budget problems. Now with your answer, keep inind that Obama, even with a supermajority in congress for two years, NEVER passed a budget. He claims one his first year, but it really wasn't a budget, it was six separate bills he construed as a budget. His second year, still with a supermajority, no budget from Obama.

So, when do we stop and fix the mess?

That's the problem. The left and center-right (without pressure from conservatives) have no desire to confront it and they won't. That's why I have no problem with holding the debt ceiling where it is. Otherwise, it's never going to get dealt with unless a balanced-budget amendment with a debt-reduction clause gets passed. And the odds of that happening are slim.

[SB Shock]

It is still childish governance, and going with it is much like a parent falling for a child's temper tantrum. It sets the line for more bad behavior to follow and hurts the entire process. We need to force our politicians to make sane decisions within the normal system, not allow them to use arbitrary deadlines and the nation's financial health as a hostage to accomplish political objectives. If they are incapable of doing their job and negotiating without the threat of collapse, then they shouldn't be in office.

I don't disagree. But we are where we are because we don't elect good represenatives and most of them shouldn't be in office.

[MoValley John]

The most telling question is to ask all of the Obama supporters to name the President's biggest mistake. I want to hear it from the Democrats on this board.

[kcshocker11]

The threat to shut down the government and the debt ceiling another six months out is EXACTLY what caused George HW Bush to cave on his pledge of "Read my lips, no new taxes." Same exact thing, different timetable. One president put keeping the government operating over his own personal agenda, the other will not.

There was never a threat to default . To continue to lump the two together is simply wrong. Bush acknowledged that tax increases were necessary.

In June 1990 Bush abandoned his “Read my lips. No new taxes” campaign pledge and acknowledged that new or increased taxes were necessary. Many Republican conservatives were critical of this shift, and his popularity ratings fell immediately. A compromise deficit-reduction plan was killed by the House, with many Republicans in opposition. As a result, the government was almost forced to shut down for lack of money while a new budget proposal was drafted.Source: Grolier Encyclopedia on-line, “The Presidency” , Dec 25, 2000