1st Debate Romney/Obama

[kcshocker11]

lol KungWu- still wont work

[shox1989]

Actually, Romney has been more accurate in his proposed policies and numbers than any candidate in recent memory. Obama promised us low unemployment, he absolutely promised it.

I understand partisanship and trying to nit pick your opponent, but if the press is going to play fair, and treat candidates equally, isn't it time for the press to start hammering Obama with the same question they asked Bush when he was running against Kerrey. "Name at least one mistake you've made in your first term."

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Actually I am a Republican. I was looking for a R who would actually cut the deficit. Romney promises not to touch Social Security, INCREASE Medicare spending by $716 Billion over Obama's medicare spending, INCREASE Defense spending by $2 trillion, and cut the tax rates by 20%, cutting revenue by $4.8 trillion (he does say he will make it revenue neutral but it sounds like to make that happen he would have to basically eliminate the mortgage deduction, the property tax & state income tax deductions, charitable contributions and several others- something that Congress would probably never pass).

So all I hear from Romney are details on how he is going to INCREASE the deficit. Except he will get rid of Big Bird (which I have no problems with by the way, it just isn't going to make a dent in the deficit).

If he is going to leave Social Security alone while increasing medicare and defense spending and cut taxes, I don't think there is enough budget left to cut to get rid of the deficit.

My fear is that if Romney is elected, he will be a huge borrow and spend liberal that will balloon the debt. My fear is he is he will bring the Republican party down with him causing the Ds to make great gains in the 2014 elections. I would rather have Obama get re-elected and have the Rs gain seats in 2014 with a chance to elect a real fiscal conservative in 2016.

[shox1989]

In normal times I would disagree whole-heartedly. These are not normal times and libertarians need to recognize the implications of Obama being reelected. Their aspirations will likely be lost for a very, very long time should that happen.

They would do well to support the GOP this one time.

I am not a libertarian (although more Rs like Bush and Romney might eventually turn me into one). I am a Republican who is tired of voting for Republicans who out spend Democrats. And based on Romney's promises he is another one of those. I am a Republican who would rather wait until 2016 when we can elect a true conservative than vote for another borrow and spend liberal Republican now who is going to further ruin the party and help the Ds gain seats and power in 2014 and 2016.

If Obama is re-elected, the Rs should have nice gains in 2014 and be in a great position to elect a true fiscal conservative in 2016. I am tired of voting for people like Bush who spend like crazy and end up hurting the GOP brand in the long run.

[Kung Wu]

I am not a libertarian (although more Rs like Bush and Romney might eventually turn me into one). I am a Republican who is tired of voting for Republicans who out spend Democrats. And based on Romney's promises he is another one of those. I am a Republican who would rather wait until 2016 when we can elect a true conservative than vote for another borrow and spend liberal Republican now who is going to further ruin the party and help the Ds gain seats and power in 2014 and 2016.

If Obama is re-elected, the Rs should have nice gains in 2014 and be in a great position to elect a true fiscal conservative in 2016. I am tired of voting for people like Bush who spend like crazy and end up hurting the GOP brand in the long run.

Believe me, I sympathize with this completely. Problem is if Obama gets reelected ObamaCare becomes permanent without hope of repeal.

The fiscal cliff is approaching. Your choice this year is elect the guy that drives the bus off the cliff at top speed, or elect the guy that will at least slow the bus until his running mate can get elected.

I wish it weren't that bleak, but it is what it is.

[pinstripers]

Damn. Yes, I'm afraid so.

[Dave Stalwart]

I can't take anyone seriously who thinks Obamas problem was not having a big enough stimulus. That thing was huge. The numbers were comical in the first place and to say they weren't big enough seems more like just loyalty than anything else. The stimulus was huge and the fact that it didn't do much beyond a temporary fix only proves that it doesn't actually work.

Then again, I'm just a basketball fan. I should probably stick to that...

[shox1989]

Believe me, I sympathize with this completely. Problem is if Obama gets reelected ObamaCare becomes permanent without hope of repeal.

The fiscal cliff is approaching. Your choice this year is elect the guy that drives the bus off the cliff at top speed, or elect the guy that will at least slow the bus until his running mate can get elected.


I wish it weren't that bleak, but it is what it is.

I guess I am just not as confident as you guys that Romney will actually slow the bus down. So far he has promised to INCREASE medicare spending by $716 billion and INCREASE defense spending by $2 Trillion and cut taxes by $480 million a year (the tax cut part of his plan would pass easily, the part where he gets rid of every major deduction to keep it revenue neutral probably doesn't pass).

Those things alone really speed up the bus. He has to do a lot of cutting of the small portion of the budget that remains to slow the bus down (he says Social Security is off the table too). I just don't see it happening. I just see a major disaster coming (like the Bus reaching over the cliff) and I would rather have Obama blamed for it so we can elect some good fiscal conservatives in the future than have Romney driving the bus when it happens so that Ds end up making big gains.

[Wu du Nord]

I can't take anyone seriously who thinks Obamas problem was not having a big enough stimulus. That thing was huge.

That's what she said.

[Wu du Nord]

I think most liberals see finances as a zero sum game where the only way somebody gets rich is if they take it from someone else.

It's always a dangerous game to assume what 'most people' see when you are not one of the people in the group described.

However, I don't think you will find many economically educated people espousing the idea that finances (not quite sure what you intend there) as a zero sum game. I am certain that you could find some pretty vegetarian college girls whose expressions betray that holding at a deeper level, but this isn't really about nailing the least knowledgeable percentile, is it?

I would suggest that you would be closer to the truth in noting that there is some disagreement over how the results of a cooperative plus-sum game should be distributed between the participants.

[Wu du Nord]

I finally got a chance to watch the full debate.

1. Obama did not put on a 'good show'.

2. The Mitt Romney put on a 'good show'.

3. I find it hard to imagine the Mitt Romney who appeared on the stage during that debate could have won the Republican nomination. The Mitt Romney who won the nomination is the same guy who stood before a crowded auditorium and a national tv audience and declared that he would not raise taxes one dollar in exchange for ten dollars in spending cuts. This debate was a strong pivot towards the center from many of Romney's previous positions. It's entertaining and clever for a boxer to make a lot of noise about what he's going to do in the ring, but when the big fight comes to do something entirely different. It's deeply worrying when a politician does that. I would be pretty angry, if I were one of the folks who listened and supported to Mitt earlier in the campaign only to see Mr Massachusetts moderate out there. The Romney campaign said they weren't going to let their campaign be dictated by fact checkers... and they meant it.

4. Jim Leher didn't do a very good job as moderator. Honestly, though, I don't know what a good moderator looks like in this sort of political environment. If the moderator is heavy handed and controls the stage, then the candidates are quickly put in the box of repeating snippets of their stump speeches and other manufactured sound bytes. Maybe Leher did a good job, who knows. The reality is that the traditional debate format doesn't really work in the context of modern campaigns and news-cycles. It's actually difficult to describe the real importance of these encounters.

5. I can't help thinking about the first time Bush and Kerry debated.

[Kung Wu]

I am certain that you could find some pretty vegetarian college girls whose expressions betray that holding at a deeper level, but this isn't really about nailing the least knowledgeable percentile, is it?

This is begging for a @WstateU: sighting.

[Kung Wu]

3. I find it hard to imagine the Mitt Romney who appeared on the stage during that debate could have won the Republican nomination. The Mitt Romney who won the nomination is the same guy who stood before a crowded auditorium and a national tv audience and declared that he would not raise taxes one dollar in exchange for ten dollars in spending cuts. This debate was a strong pivot towards the center from many of Romney's previous positions. It's entertaining and clever for a boxer to make a lot of noise about what he's going to do in the ring, but when the big fight comes to do something entirely different. It's deeply worrying when a politician does that. I would be pretty angry, if I were one of the folks who listened and supported to Mitt earlier in the campaign only to see Mr Massachusetts moderate out there. The Romney campaign said they weren't going to let their campaign be dictated by fact checkers... and they meant it.

4. Jim Leher didn't do a very good job as moderator. Honestly, though, I don't know what a good moderator looks like in this sort of political environment. If the moderator is heavy handed and controls the stage, then the candidates are quickly put in the box of repeating snippets of their stump speeches and other manufactured sound bytes. Maybe Leher did a good job, who knows. The reality is that the traditional debate format doesn't really work in the context of modern campaigns and news-cycles. It's actually difficult to describe the real importance of these encounters.

3. What we saw in this debate was:

a) a very successful CEO with 30+ years of executive experience outmaneuver a man with zero executive experience, and
b) the media couldn't hide just how adept Romney really is from the American people, and
c) the media couldn't save Obama from himself.

This was the most lopsided debate I have ever personally witnessed, though I am going to go back and look at Kennedy's ass-kicking of Nixon and compare (I haven't seen that particular debate, I have just been told it _may_ be as lopsided).

4. Lehrer did great. Obama got more air time than Romney, so you can't argue it wasn't "fair". This debate was substantive and letting the two get more time on the economy was a big improvement over sound-biting these guys to death. The proposed time limits of the debate sucked and Lehrer didn't strangle them with it.

[Kung Wu]

This debate was a strong pivot towards the center from many of Romney's previous positions. ... I would be pretty angry, if I were one of the folks who listened and supported to Mitt earlier in the campaign only to see Mr Massachusetts moderate out there.

But since you are a liberal and KNOW that Romney is a moderate and extremely fiscally savvy due to turning around humpteen companies, and growing mifteen companies, and successfully pulling off the role as pivot-man in the international circle-jerk known as the International Olympic Committee, and running the liberal state of Massachusetts; you'll be voting him in November, right?

We know you will.

Also, there isn't a member of the GOP on this planet that doesn't realize Romney is a moderate. They are hoping and praying that Romney turns the economy around (he will) and that 8 years from now Paul Ryan takes over and can begin the real process of cutting spending.

[pinstripers]

Interesting all the clever crap that Odumba was saying the following day, obviously written by others, cause he was not quick enough to come up with it on the spot. That hurt him. He is not as cool as his image.

[MoValley John]

That's what she said.

Now that was funny!!!

Good work!