PAC-12 Football Players List Demands

[revenge_of_shocka_khan]

If Saban was told his salary would need to be reduced to the president's salary, how quickly would he tell the players to take a hike? A bit of context, Saban annual salary, 8.6 million, president of Alabama, 563,000

Your hypothetical assumes that Saban will react in a certain matter. I'm saying he probably would not. I don't think you can quantify your position with a degree of certainty.

[revenge_of_shocka_khan]

I think I will write a letter with my list of demands to my employer. Let's see where that get me...

Since I don't see you as an executive (which means you might have a contract and could make demands) you would most likely be dismissed as a crank.

[mattdalt]

Your hypothetical assumes that Saban will react in a certain matter. I'm saying he probably would not. I don't think you can quantify your position with a degree of certainty.

You are suggesting that if Saban were required to take an 8,000,000 pay cut to help afford the "demands" the Pac 12 players are suggesting, he would do so?

[wufan]

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019...port-collusion

If that’s the narrative you want to run with...

[revenge_of_shocka_khan]

You are suggesting that if Saban were required to take an 8,000,000 pay cut to help afford the "demands" the Pac 12 players are suggesting, he would do so?

You're deflecting. I would say he wouldn't take the pay cut.

[revenge_of_shocka_khan]

I think that if OU or Alabama are paying players and they aren’t performing, then yes, I think they would tell them to leave. Probably more cut throat at the higher levels.

This started out as a social justice and safety issue. It has somewhat morphed into a 'we want to be paid' issue.

Are you saying that the players don't have a right to be protected in their 'place of employment'?
https://digitalcommons.law.utulsa.ed...ontext=fac_pub

Tell me why they should not have a right to a workplace where hazards are minimized. Especially in light of this:
https://www.onthebanks.com/2020/8/3/...keith-sargeant

Seems like there are two camps here. One camp that says the players are essentially indentured servants and cannot organize to demand workplace protection (meaning if they do not agree with the university they ought to be kicked off the team) the other who say this is a workplace hazard/working conditions (coaches using inappropriate language) issue where they have every right to engage university brass and air their grievances.

So I'm guessing you are coming down in favor of your fellow conservatives, who take the position that the university has an absolute (durable) right to dictate working conditions/workplace hazard situations without the players having a right to redress? Please clarify.

[wufan]

This started out as a social justice and safety issue. It has somewhat morphed into a 'we want to be paid' issue.

Are you saying that the players don't have a right to be protected in their 'place of employment'?
https://digitalcommons.law.utulsa.ed...ontext=fac_pub

Tell me why they should not have a right to a workplace where hazards are minimized. Especially in light of this:
https://www.onthebanks.com/2020/8/3/...keith-sargeant

Seems like there are two camps here. One camp that says the players are essentially indentured servants and cannot organize to demand workplace protection (meaning if they do not agree with the university they ought to be kicked off the team) the other who say this is a workplace hazard/working conditions (coaches using inappropriate language) issue where they have every right to engage university brass and air their grievances.

So I'm guessing you are coming down in favor of your fellow conservatives, who take the position that the university has an absolute (durable) right to dictate working conditions/workplace hazard situations without the players having a right to redress? Please clarify.

First we have to agree if they're employed. You quoted a journal that asked a question in the title, meaning that it has multiple possible answers. Do you believe they are employed and why?

No one has a right to a work place or a post-secondary education in this case. You either choose to go there or somewhere else. Certainly an employer should provide safety regulations. Is that not happening? You’re a risk analyst. What’s the risk of death to a 17-25 year old male from Covid? It’s a lot less than the risk to multiple concussions in their sport I’d imagine.

I never said they should be kicked off the team. I said that if they want to play a competitive game, that’s a possible outcome they should be prepared for. I don’t know why you are projecting this position on me. Do you just want me to be a baddie or something? Of course they can state their grievances. Of course the U can decide if they want to act on them or not. We, on the outside, can also agree if we think their grievances are reasonable or disagree if we don’t. That’s how a free society works.

[Shockm]

Seems like there are two camps here. One camp that says the players are essentially indentured servants

All of your arguments were weak sauce but "indentured servants" is one of the weakest I've ever heard. Do a little research on Indentured servants.

[BOBB]

I think I will write a letter with my list of demands to my employer. Let's see where that get me...

If you're worth a ****, it might get some of your demands met.

[WuDrWu]

This started out as a social justice and safety issue. It has somewhat morphed into a 'we want to be paid' issue.

If you didn't understand (or think) that this was ALWAYS going to be about "we want to be paid" then you're either terribly naïve, disingenuous or just plain stupid. You can't start with the $$$ argument or it gets shut down too easily. Start with making people feel bad and get the emotional response, then come in with the $$$. They are not stupid.

[revenge_of_shocka_khan]

If you didn't understand (or think) that this was ALWAYS going to be about "we want to be paid" then you're either terribly naïve, disingenuous or just plain stupid. You can't start with the $$$ argument or it gets shut down too easily. Start with making people feel bad and get the emotional response, then come in with the $$$. They are not stupid.

Can't say as I disagree with that, the kids are smart and their parents (in a whole lot of cases) are, too (as well as their trainers and coaches and whomever they also rely on for advice) However, the best way to PREVENT unionization is to be benevolent to employees, to hear their concerns out and to attempt to accomodate them. Not to say 'do it may way or else'. That stopped working about the era of Woody Hayes (Ohio State) and Bobby Knight (Indiana). I will also say there is a limit as to how much a coach should have to tolerate, but that is changing in this era and will look different going forward whether people agree with that or not.

Best thing to do is to adjust to these changes to the extent possible and find a way to make the system work for you.

[abdullah_sharif]

looks like college sports are heading into the unprofitable with an uncertain business future.. wouldn't be surprised to see athletic departments shrink in the near future over and above covid

[revenge_of_shocka_khan]

looks like college sports are heading into the unprofitable with an uncertain business future.. wouldn't be surprised to see athletic departments shrink in the near future over and above covid

I expect NO football season (unless it happens in 2021) and at least a shortened basketball season (if one occurs at all).

Whether my predictions come true or not would depend on the availability of vaccine. The NBA, NFL, MLB can throw money at the quarantine arrangements or testing arrangements. I am not as sure about the NCAA.

And although I am enjoying watching MLB, I'm not sure their model is sustainable.

[mattdalt]

You're deflecting. I would say he wouldn't take the pay cut.

Agreed, he would not. So his next course of action would be to tell the players to take a hike. The money for the demands has to come from somewhere in the athletic department.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019...port-collusion

LOL!!!!!! Good one. You are more dense than I previously thought, and that is really saying something.