Minneapolis votes to abolish their PD

[ShockTalk]

My understanding is that "defunding" the police does not mean "dissolving" or "dismantling" the police and doing a full re-build or reassignment of duties. However, many on the right and left, black and white believes that is what it means. Defunding can mean taking part of the police budget and put it to different uses, whether that means social programs, new types of police training, and/or redirecting funds to set up parts of police duties to other entities. Pretty sure it does NOT mean getting rid of the police. "Defunding the police" was used terminology well before all this stuff happening this year.

[wufan]

My understanding is that "defunding" the police does not mean "dissolving" or "dismantling" the police and doing a full re-build or reassignment of duties. However, many on the right and left, black and white believes that is what it means. Defunding can mean taking part of the police budget and put it to different uses, whether that means social programs, new types of police training, and/or redirecting funds to set up parts of police duties to other entities. Pretty sure it does NOT mean getting rid of the police. "Defunding the police" was used terminology well before all this stuff happening this year.

So AOC and others disagree. That’s why this is a problem. Some mean create an unarmed traffic division. Some mean abolish. The very lefty cities are cutting the budgets deep to the point where it seems unlikely they can do their job.

[wufan]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.amp.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/19/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-and-does-it-have-merit/amp/

[Shockm]

"Redirect funding". That's completely different than defunding.

You are taking funding away from police. Where it goes, is just a guess.

[ShockTalk]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...olice.amp.html



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bro...ave-merit/amp/

Good finds, wufan .

The first example is the "crazed" thinking (pretty obvious, I don't care who you are except for the radical left).

The second example is spot on. This black gentleman is a Fellow-Governance Studies.

[Shockm]

If I took 10% of the police budget and added it to an agency that responded to, say homeless and mental health issues, AND I took those calls off of the cops' plate, did I defund them? I guess you could make an argument. My opinion is that if the public safety budget doesn't change, you haven't defunded ****.

That still means 10% fewer police on the force. 10% doesn’t seem much but AOC doesn’t say 10%. She says to defund the police and she one of Biden’s election advisor. It’s either fewer police or much fewer police depending on if you trust AOC or someone else.

[ShockTalk]

"Redirect funding". That's completely different than defunding.

I do not believe so at all. Redirecting is one potential part of "defunding".

[Shockm]

If I took 10% of the police budget and added it to an agency that responded to, say homeless and mental health issues, AND I took those calls off of the cops' plate, did I defund them? I guess you could make an argument. My opinion is that if the public safety budget doesn't change, you haven't defunded ****.

Just a year or two ago, a mentally ill man who wasn’t taking his medication killed a cop. Drug dealers have had incidents that turned into shootings. A domestic Fight between a man and woman who lived together turned into a violent altercation with the police who were called to the scene. And a person who was speeding and stopped, turned into a stolen car and a man with a gun who shot at police. All of these incidents have happened in the past couple of years. Do you want unarmed, untrained personnel taking any of these calls, whether that is a social worker or unarmed traffic woman or man?

[wichshock65]

I do not believe so at all. Redirecting is one potential part of "defunding".

Sorry, I was being just a tad sarcastic. I look at both terms as the same. Taking money from the police, period.

[mattdalt]

That still means 10% fewer police on the force. 10% .

Would all the budget reduction have to come from personnel on the force? Could some of it come from the weaponry or militarized equipment budget? Could it come from a reduction in administrators?

[ShockTalk]

That still means 10% fewer police on the force. 10% doesn’t seem much but AOC doesn’t say 10%. She says to defund the police and she one of Biden’s election advisor. It’s either fewer police or much fewer police depending on if you trust AOC or someone else.

I think that all police departments need to take a serious look at their force, along with the Brotherhood of Police, and make some serious decisions on repeat officer offenders who have been protected in the past or soft peddled and how a meaningful approach can be formed in the future. As we have seen, one bad apple HAS spoiled it for a lot of police personnel and their departments.

Also, if an officer cannot approach situations in a respectable and professional manner, they need to find a more suitable occupation. I don't care if they're writing parking tickets or dealing with tough and serious situations. They are working for all citizens. By and large, I don't believe this is a problem with a large majority of officers. There are situations where "I feared for my life" is too dramatic, particularly for a well trained officer.

There are also better ways of handling many types of traffic stops which are also probably more effective ways that should also reduce traffic violations. Cameras on intersections and roadways and using mailed tickets where people can see their infraction online and pay fines online. If you don't fill an online objection and don't pay the ticket, then comes the face to face, preferably not at their home unless there is no other way.

[BOBB]

That still means 10% fewer police on the force. 10% doesn’t seem much but AOC doesn’t say 10%. She says to defund the police and she one of Biden’s election advisor. It’s either fewer police or much fewer police depending on if you trust AOC or someone else.

If I decrease the Marines by 10% and increase the Army by 10%, sure the Marines shrunk, but how much did the armed forces shrink?

If your only tool is a hammer...

[wufan]

If I decrease the Marines by 10% and increase the Army by 10%, sure the Marines shrunk, but how much did the armed forces shrink?

If your only tool is a hammer...

I’m all good with folks taking a look at their local budget and making hard choices. I don’t think that’s what is happening. I think they are trying to make it difficult for the police to do their job to further chaos on the chance that it makes Trump look bad, and better still, the chance that it helps to dismantle the fabric of society.

Remember, the goal of BLM is not helping black people, it’s to other throw the capitalist system and replace it with a CHOP-like Marxist-utopian society.

[C0|dB|00ded]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/gun-ammo-...s-civil-unrest

I don't know where this goes. I'll put it in here.

Back in 2014 when 'Bum was floating some gun ban trial balloons, purchases soared. At that time they said there were 300 million privately owned guns in America. And gun sales are surging again... society will find its equilibrium.

I wonder how many multiples of weaponry America has compared to other countries. We would really be a bad place to invade...

[Shox The Revenant]

When I was with the WPD, I made several calls for service to deal with mentally ill people. The most vivid example was at the QT at Harry and Hillside. When we arrived on scene, there was a very large, completely naked, African American woman holding a bible to her chest with both hands looking up into the sky in the middle of a rain shower. She wouldn't acknowledge our presence and wouldn't answer our questions. She just stood there naked getting rained on mumbling to herself. Back then, we were the first to deal with these types of people and once we determined nothing criminal was done, the person would be taken by ambulance to St. Joe's to be admitted into their mental intake.

These types of calls were pointless to have the cops involved. We're not trained to deal with these types of folks and we just had to 'wing' it so-to-speak. I'm not necessarily a fan of defunding the Police, but there needs to be a new process implemented where a city has a program or department made up of mental health professionals who could be called out to these types of calls instead of the cops.

Do any of you remember that dude in East Wichita nicknamed Crazy Mike? I had to deal with him quite often and the man got a bad rap. The cops were called on him and he called the cops to assist him numerous times. He lived in a home between 21st and 29th streets off of Rock Rd, if memory serves me correctly and his home had plywood over the windows because teenagers would often drive by his home and throw rocks through the windows. He had placed large rocks on the perimeter of his yard to stop the teenagers from driving through his yard tearing it up. One night he called the cops because some teenagers were harassing him outside his house and I had a chance to make idle chit chat with him while taking his report.

Before that night, the only thing I knew of Crazy Mike was what I heard as rumors, obviously I had seen him around often riding his moped or hang around downtown, but that night opened my eyes about this man. Speaking with him, he was articulate and sounded educated. He told me he had a Masters degree and his parents were well off and had purchased the home he was living in for him. He stated he was just your average guy but things went south after college in his mid to late 20's. He never told me specifically, but I gathered during this time he was diagnosed as being bi-polar. He did not always take his medicine for his condition consistently. That would explain his mercurial behavior - if he was off his meds, he'd obviously act strangely but the night I interacted with him, he pretty much acted 'normally'. I can't tell you how many times we had to interact with Mike and for the most part, these were non-incidents that really didn't need police involvement. Just another example of cops being asked to be mental health professionals when we shouldn't have to be.

I haven't seen that man in a long time, I had moved to KC after changing careers in the early 2000s but when I moved back to Wichita in 2007, I don't recall ever seeing him again. I wonder what ever happened to him oddly enough.