Sub's Alternative Energy Thread

[1972Shocker]

I'll hold out as long as I possibly can buying electric vehicles. Depending on the car
charging times run from 30 minutes up to 8 hours. Average probably 1-2 hours. Who
wants to wait that long when your on a trip??? Also, like a golf cart, replacing batteries
will be VERY expensive and who knows when/where they are going to die on you and
how close you might be to a place you can buy/install them?

From what I understand disposing of the dead batteries is not exactly the easiest thing to do nor most environmental friendly thing as well.

[BOBB]

One size does not fit all. Maybe taxis in bigger cities to start but widespread electric cars in our area just don't make sense today or the foreseeable future. As wufan said, quantum leaps in battery tech are needed overall, much less to discuss the transportation of goods for instance.

Are you telling me there's no free lunch?

I think electric will make sense for most city and suburban dwellers and less for long haul and rural folk.

The one thing that I don't want to see that I know I will see is a push for people to replace their existing cars for electric (cash for clunkers redux). It's just a handout to the manufacturers. You can drive a coal powered Suburban and your resources used might never approach that of producing a new car. People should be encouraged to maintain their cars and drive them until the wheels fall off.

[BOBB]

From what I understand disposing of the dead batteries is not exactly the easiest thing to do nor most environmental friendly thing as well.

My understanding is that the materials in the batteries are pretty expensive and a secondary market for breaking them down would exist. Not a job I would want.

[wufan]

Are you telling me there's no free lunch?

I think electric will make sense for most city and suburban dwellers and less for long haul and rural folk.

The one thing that I don't want to see that I know I will see is a push for people to replace their existing cars for electric (cash for clunkers redux). It's just a handout to the manufacturers. You can drive a coal powered Suburban and your resources used might never approach that of producing a new car. People should be encouraged to maintain their cars and drive them until the wheels fall off.

Totally agree with your analysis. The funny thing about it is that the only vehicle that will potentially be coal powered will be the electric one.

[wufan]

My understanding is that the materials in the batteries are pretty expensive and a secondary market for breaking them down would exist. Not a job I would want.

When is that industry going to kick off? Here’s a recent article:

https://www.science.org/content/article/millions-electric-cars-are-coming-what-happens-all-dead-batteries

Certainly something that will be a future issue, and with time I’m sure a market based solution will present.

[ShockerPrez]

I tend to believe that the future may not be batteries, but just a cleaner fuel. Until we have an infrastructure in place like we do gas stations, electric cars can't be the norm. The range won't justify it for the vast majority I just see the 3-5 charging stations at a parking lot here and there and that won't cut it.

And if/when half the parking spots have charging stations, who's gonna pay that electric bill? Because I heard the left's Almight Obama say he wants electricity costs necessarily higher to fight climate change. The grocery store ain't gonna foot that bill. The virtue-signal today only goes so far $$$.

It all sounds great and if electric cars were as easy as filling up a gas car, (and priced) I'd probably be on board.

[wufan]

I tend to believe that the future may not be batteries, but just a cleaner fuel. Until we have an infrastructure in place like we do gas stations, electric cars can't be the norm. The range won't justify it for the vast majority I just see the 3-5 charging stations at a parking lot here and there and that won't cut it.

And if/when half the parking spots have charging stations, who's gonna pay that electric bill? Because I heard the left's Almight Obama say he wants electricity costs necessarily higher to fight climate change. The grocery store ain't gonna foot that bill. The virtue-signal today only goes so far $$$.

It all sounds great and if electric cars were as easy as filling up a gas car, (and priced) I'd probably be on board.

The cost per mile for an electric vehicle is about $0.05 per mile. For a gas vehicle it is three times that amount on average. What isn’t clear to me is how much of that cost is non-government subsidized infrastructure and taxes. It’s probably close to equivalent when those factors are taken into account. I don’t have the numbers though.

[SubGod22]

Until an electric vehicle will allow me to take the vacations I want without having to stop and wait forever to recharge, I'm not the least bit interested.

There are also a number of concerning issues with the development of the cars and more specifically the batteries currently being used for them and the environmental damage that is done.

They're also still mostly being run on fossil fuels.

Not only do they take too long to charge for travelers, I'm not sure if their range helps any there either. I haven't looked into what the range is recently for the average EV, but on my latest trip to the four corners region I made it in around 11 hours and only had to stop once for gas as I was getting about 450 miles to my little 11 gallon tank. And stopping for gas took no more than three minutes.

I agree, for people who don't travel and stick to staying in and around the city they live they're not that big of a deal as you can just charge your car overnight and not have to worry about it. Though those electricity costs aren't going to be pretty.

And someone brought up battery costs. I have a friend that used to work for a company that made and sold such batteries and they're not cheap and they don't last a great deal of time all things considered. That tech absolutely has to improve and I do know there are companies that are working on that. So while EV's very well might be the future, they're nothing but a niche product right now and will continue to be until a lot of things change. Or our government goes out of its way to force the change and screw millions over financially.

[Shockm]

Well to the question about how fast the government moves us toward EV's, I would imagine that the 2024 election will have something to do with it. If Biden (well you know what I mean) is re-elected, no change, but if a Republican is elected, the change will be less painful, fuel prices go down (and the inflation on of fuel for cars/home heating caused by government), the pipeline reopens, exploration is renewed, and we have more fossil fuel jobs.

[WstateU]

Until an electric vehicle will allow me to take the vacations I want without having to stop and wait forever to recharge, I'm not the least bit interested.

There are also a number of concerning issues with the development of the cars and more specifically the batteries currently being used for them and the environmental damage that is done.

They're also still mostly being run on fossil fuels.

Not only do they take too long to charge for travelers, I'm not sure if their range helps any there either. I haven't looked into what the range is recently for the average EV, but on my latest trip to the four corners region I made it in around 11 hours and only had to stop once for gas as I was getting about 450 miles to my little 11 gallon tank. And stopping for gas took no more than three minutes.

I agree, for people who don't travel and stick to staying in and around the city they live they're not that big of a deal as you can just charge your car overnight and not have to worry about it. Though those electricity costs aren't going to be pretty.

And someone brought up battery costs. I have a friend that used to work for a company that made and sold such batteries and they're not cheap and they don't last a great deal of time all things considered. That tech absolutely has to improve and I do know there are companies that are working on that. So while EV's very well might be the future, they're nothing but a niche product right now and will continue to be until a lot of things change. Or our government goes out of its way to force the change and screw millions over financially.

I'm sure a vehicle 'full of batteries' will cause cancer in lab rats.

I always pictured you in a 'smart' car...



If push comes to shove, I'll have to drive my old 'Stanley Steamer' that Ross and I used when chasing the "Flappers" back in the day...

[Shockm]

If push comes to shove, I'll have to drive my old 'Stanley Steamer' that Ross and I used when chasing the "Flappers" back in the day...

You're a great Shocker fan so I'm looking forward to you taking a great "Stanley Steamer" road trip to Tulsa at the end of February. It shouldn't take you long to get there.

[ShockerPrez]

My biggest issue with all of it, is that I wish it was just market driven, and let the chips fall where they may. The government shouldn't have much of a say in how I choose to move in a (formerly, I guess) "free" country.

[WstateU]

If push comes to shove, I'll have to drive my old 'Stanley Steamer' that Ross and I used when chasing the "Flappers" back in the day...

Found this old relic in my archives...

[C0|dB|00ded]

Don't knock battery until you've test-driven it. After you do so you'll likely be hooked. There's nothing quite like driving an electric car.

As far as the smartest solution going forward? Hybrids, with tinier and tinier engines. The torque from electricity more than makes up for the lack of cubic inches.

The most economical car on the planet that combines the best of both worlds is the Prius Prime. Total range is around 650 miles and it will drive 30 mi. on electric only. So you can charge it up overnight and get to work and back or run some errands and never drink a drop of petrol. If you need to extend your drive then you'll automatically switch over to hybrid mode when you're out of juice. These smart hybrids with some battery range will transition us into the total electric era. But personally, I like the idea of a tiny I.C.E. nestled somewhere inside an "all-electric" car... just for emergencies.



Prius Prime ^^^

[MikeKennedyRulZ]