Debt Limit

[1979Shocker]

Boehner misses cuts target, postpones deficit vote

WASHINGTON — House GOP leaders have postponed a vote on a plan to trade more than $1 trillion in spending cuts for an increase in the government's borrowing cap that would be nearly as large.

GOP leaders had promised a vote Wednesday, but Rep. David Dreier of California said Tuesday that the vote was postponed because congressional scorekeepers said the bill won't produce the budget savings promised by House Speaker John Boehner when unveiling it Monday.

Republicans are also struggling to shore up support for the measure among conservatives unhappy over its promised budget cuts.

Dreier said the measure could come to a vote on Thursday after it's modified.

[RoyalShock]

Boehner misses cuts target, postpones deficit vote

WASHINGTON — House GOP leaders have postponed a vote on a plan to trade more than $1 trillion in spending cuts for an increase in the government's borrowing cap that would be nearly as large.

GOP leaders had promised a vote Wednesday, but Rep. David Dreier of California said Tuesday that the vote was postponed because congressional scorekeepers said the bill won't produce the budget savings promised by House Speaker John Boehner when unveiling it Monday.

Republicans are also struggling to shore up support for the measure among conservatives unhappy over its promised budget cuts.

Dreier said the measure could come to a vote on Thursday after it's modified.

I guess I should clarify my previous post that SOME on one side are trying.

:ohno:

[wsushox1]

But which side is obstructing, or is it really both?

I post regularly on different forums and the forums could not be any more polar opposites when it comes to politics, so its nice to get both sides before coming to an opinion.

But the question of how you deal with entitlements has not been answered.

How do you, what would be acceptable entitlement reform for you?

Changing the ages for SS payments, making it so that you can't claim under 18 dependents on SS as I am in my family? Making medicare ages start later? Handing Medicaid over to the states and giving the states set medicaid budgets that when they run out, they run out?


Also I must ask, if entitlements have bankrupted our country then why not get rid of them all together?

[RoyalShock]

Obama and the Dems are obstructing. Some of the Republicans are compromising to the point that the whole thing is a wash and doesn't do much, if anything to fix the problem.

Cut, Cap and Balance is, IMO, the best option and the Senate Dems refuse to even consider it.

As for entitlements, they must be scaled back and privatized, if possible. Soc. Sec and Medicare will require a gradual move in that direction. The people who the government conditioned to plan for and depend on it can't just have those dropped.

I think the federal government should not get involved in these things. If states want to take up social entitlements, more power to them.

I liked what I heard at least once at the Get Motivated seminar today . . . it should be up to us to be the "social safety net" for our friends and loved ones. We can do it so much better than government bureaucrats.

[wufan]

That's a good idea! There was no s.s. Or wellfare just 100 years ago. However, people have paid into these systems and it is wrong to cut and run. It's a good start to begin to reform these now and ween them off. The biggest problem is that the fed has over-promised to people that are unproductive. Now the only choices are to be more stingy, hence forcing people to sink or swim on their own, or raise taxes on those that are productive.

My reforms would be increasing the age for SS and decreasing welfare benefits. There is NO reason that people buying groceries with food stamps should be making vacation plans with their friend via an I-phone! Perhaps I could even agree to universal healthcare if the fed didn't give these people my money.

[wufan]

Obama and the Dems are obstructing. Some of the Republicans are compromising to the point that the whole thing is a wash and doesn't do much, if anything to fix the problem.

Cut, Cap and Balance is, IMO, the best option and the Senate Dems refuse to even consider it.

As for entitlements, they must be scaled back and privatized, if possible. Soc. Sec and Medicare will require a gradual move in that direction. The people who the government conditioned to plan for and depend on it can't just have those dropped.

I think the federal government should not get involved in these things. If states want to take up social entitlements, more power to them.

I liked what I heard at least once at the Get Motivated seminar today . . . it should be up to us to be the "social safety net" for our friends and loved ones. We can do it so much better than government bureaucrats.

+1. I'm all for states being either "socialized" or passing moral legislation so long as it doesn't violate the constitution. The Feds should stay out, and the states should take back power.

[RoyalShock]

As to your welfare comments, wufan, our small church group has been involved recently in a degree of social welfare for a couple who jumped between jobs and living off the government. Both had a degree of mental illness which caused challenges but didn't prevent either from holding down employment.

What we learned is that they would buy or rent unnecessary things (TV, laptop, police scanner, etc), then ask us for money to buy formula/diapers/medicine for their baby. They would also double and triple dip by asking several of us to individually help them with the same thing. We had to ask around to make sure no one else in the group had already helped.

I mention this because I've learned first hand that unless there are ways to make sure any welfare is being used responsibly, it's only serving to enable their irresponsible behavior. It's a net negative effect.

[wufan]

As to your welfare comments, wufan, our small church group has been involved recently in a degree of social welfare for a couple who jumped between jobs and living off the government. Both had a degree of mental illness which caused challenges but didn't prevent either from holding down employment.

What we learned is that they would buy or rent unnecessary things (TV, laptop, police scanner, etc), then ask us for money to buy formula/diapers/medicine for their baby. They would also double and triple dip by asking several of us to individually help them with the same thing. We had to ask around to make sure no one else in the group had already helped.

I mention this because I've learned first hand that unless there are ways to make sure any welfare is being used responsibly, it's only serving to enable their irresponsible behavior. It's a net negative effect.

Another good example of why reform is needed. If someone needs help, I'm all for helping them. Those people though, IMO, have lost their freedom to spend as they see fit.

[Maggie]

But which side is obstructing, or is it really both?

If you listen to the White House Press Corps grilling Jay Carney, in the link above, I think it is pretty clear which party is the problem. This took place after President Obama’s last televised appearance in which the only thing new he said was that he asked for Americans to contact their representatives and to tell them to back the “balanced” approach to the debt-ceiling crisis that the White House wants. The problem is – no one knows what the heck that means. There is no plan from the White House. There is no there there. So why not?

I tried to unpack the argument Carney was making on behalf of the White House and it appeared to be this: The President does not want to publicly release a plan because he doesn’t want the responsibility of defending a plan, but this is not a fair thing to criticize because the plan was explained verbally to the White House Press Corps and that was full of specifics, but specifics nobody will specify. Got it? It comes across as pouting, peevish, and petulant. And it is.

Obama’s negotiating skills are among the worst of any president in our lifetime. For example, he makes a handshake agreement with the Speaker of the House to increase revenues by $800 billion, only to be criticized by congressional Democrats for going back on his word, causing the president to go back to the Speaker the next day to increase revenues by half. No one can trust the president’s words or commitments. As a result the president is now sidelined and increasingly irrelevant. The fact is Democratic and Republican congressional leaders have already moved beyond the White House in their negotiations. From what I can tell the President is still insisting on tax increases (or as they say revenue) – but that is not happening. While there is no way to know for sure what the outcome of the next few days will be, one thing is already assured: the president’s political posturing is irrelevant to the attempt to find a compromise between the two parties on the debt. And even if it is relevant - it is doing more harm than good. In fact, it is not helping matters at all.

[SubGod22]

I'll never forget the stories my mother has told me about when my older brother was little and my parents were both in the Army. Many times they'd go grocery shopping and have to tell him they couldn't afford to buy much of the stuff a young child would want (candy, soda, junk food) yet when they'd check out, people on food stamps would load up with all of that stuff, plus cigs and who knows what else what. They also had all the stuff my mother would call essential. Kinda sucks that the gov't was giving more buying power to those on welfare than to those who served. I'm also all for drug testing those on welfare as I believe Florida is now doing, or going to do.

Gov't isn't here to "take care" of the people. State and local gov't/charities can and should be the ones responsible for all of that. They're more efficient and can do it cheaper the DC.

[Maggie]

I like this guy, Andrew Klavan, a lot. He does videos called Klavan On The Culture, which are entertaining and instructive, to wit:

Andrew Klavan's Economic Smackdown: Paul Ryan vs. Barack Obama

The video is old but still relevant.

[SubGod22]

I enjoy Klavan quite a bit as well.

[1979Shocker]

GOP retools plan as Congress seeks debt fix

WASHINGTON — Six days away from a potentially calamitous government default, House Republicans appeared to be coalescing Wednesday around a work-in-progress plan by House Speaker John Boehner to increase the U.S. borrowing limit and chop $1 trillion in federal spending. But the White House dismissed the proposal as a waste of time, and it got a thumbs-down from Senate Democrats and tea party activists, too.

It was a telling illustration of the difficult politics along the pathway to a deal in a standoff that has put financial markets on edge. Stocks were falling sharply Wednesday.

GOP leaders worked to line up support for Boehner's proposal, which was being retooled after nonpartisan analysts in the Congressional Budget Office said it would cut spending less than he had estimated — about $850 billion over 10 years rather than $1.2 trillion. The House planned to vote on the reworked plan Thursday, with Boehner calling it "the best opportunity we have to hold the president's feet to the fire."

[Maggie]

GOP retools plan as Congress seeks debt fix

WASHINGTON — Six days away from a potentially calamitous government default, House Republicans appeared to be coalescing Wednesday around a work-in-progress plan by House Speaker John Boehner to increase the U.S. borrowing limit and chop $1 trillion in federal spending. But the White House dismissed the proposal as a waste of time, and it got a thumbs-down from Senate Democrats and tea party activists, too.

It was a telling illustration of the difficult politics along the pathway to a deal in a standoff that has put financial markets on edge. Stocks were falling sharply Wednesday.

GOP leaders worked to line up support for Boehner's proposal, which was being retooled after nonpartisan analysts in the Congressional Budget Office said it would cut spending less than he had estimated — about $850 billion over 10 years rather than $1.2 trillion. The House planned to vote on the reworked plan Thursday, with Boehner calling it "the best opportunity we have to hold the president's feet to the fire."

Good on the Speaker. Right, 79?

[SB Shock]

The real problem is when you have a debt ceiling problem - the solution is not to raise the debt ceiling so you can borrow more money.