Debt Limit

[shockmonster]

When its reported that GE (and don't think they're the only one) pays zero taxes, and I pay what I pay approximately $25,000-30 in net taxes, things are askew.

[shockmonster]

oh and Maggie is right. From the comments of a few on this board who won't bend at all, it is obvious that they don't understand "divided gov't".

[SubGod22]

Maybe not, be we understand a deal that won't accomplish anything. Some say it makes for a good starting point, but nothing will come from it. Rarely ever does. We still will lose our AAA rating and it does NOTHING to cut any fat from gov't or reduce spending. All it does is increase spending less than they want which is already way the hell too much. And we'll be right back at this same point in a year or two. Nothing will get done until both sides suck it up and do what is best for the country and slash spending.

[SubGod22]

Debt-Ceiling Outcome Precarious As Boehner Searches for Votes

Boehner, R-Ohio, suffered a stinging setback Thursday when, for a second consecutive day, he had to postpone a vote on his proposal to extend the nation's borrowing authority for six months while cutting federal spending by nearly $1 trillion.

"Obviously, we didn't have the votes," Rep. David Dreier, R-Calif., said after Boehner and the GOP leadership had spent hours trying to corral the support of rebellious conservatives.

Republicans will try again Friday, but if they fail, President Obama and Senate Democrats will have extensive leverage to shape a bill to their liking and practically dare the House to reject it and send the nation into default.

If, however, Republicans can get Boehner's version through the House, a rapid and complex set of choices will determine whether and how a debt crisis can be averted. House Republicans will be under tremendous pressure to pass something to take to the Senate to have an arm in the final negotiations before Tuesday's deadline to avoid a potential default.

Lets just prolong the agony...

[Maggie]

Part of what I do for living, in fact 95% of it, is negotiation – it can be very frustrating. It involves a lot of money and the lives and fortunes of corporations and their employees.

Rule 121: Nothing gets done until the 11th hour – because that is when the pressure increases and you have to make real choices – so be judicious and patient. Rule 23: Recognize when you have won, and don’t dance on your adversary’s grave by demanding more – meaning you get a reasonable settlement and live to fight another day. Rule 72: Listen, watch, and learn. Rule 32: Never cut off your nose to spite your face – don’t unnecessarily aggravate your adversary, even if you have cause. Rule 14: Use your leverage wisely and remain cognizant of your weakness – there is always a soft spot. Rule 40: Be aware of your environment – what is the venue, if you don’t settle what forum are you subjected to, who are the players and what influences them.

There are other Rules.

You want to “hold the line” – I don’t know what that means. Is it a realistic goal in this environment? Don’t lose the forest because you are caught up in the trees.

[RoyalShock]

oh and Maggie is right. From the comments of a few on this board who won't bend at all, it is obvious that they don't understand "divided gov't".

Divided government, compromise, or whatever else you want to call it, has put us in this predicament. It's going to take something different to get us out of it. Agreeing to a debt limit raise that can get raised again next year, then putting in a trivial amount more of so-called "cuts" (or more accurately, increase reductions) over a 10-year period is not going to do anything, nor is it a starting point.

Unless a future Congress (like, next year or year after) actually tackles this issue, we could see a $10+ trillion increase in the debt over the next 10 years. How do those $900 billion in "cuts" sound now? About as good as trying to save the Titanic with a few gallon buckets.

Not only that, next year's Congress could reverse the "cuts". Congress needs its feet held to the fire NOW. We need a balanced budget amendment NOW.

I'm sick of compromising with ideologues who refuse to acknowledge immenent fiscal truth and "starting points" that trip and fall two strides past the starting line.

If Ryan and West have endorsed the Boehner plan, count me as disappointed. This whole "super Congress" talk is scary enough. It sounds like a power-grab by the entrenched representatives.


:rant:

[SB Shock]

oh and Maggie is right. From the comments of a few on this board who won't bend at all, it is obvious that they don't understand "divided gov't".

I'm not one to bend on my principles. If you do they really aren't principles are they then?

We got here because we had undivided government and they pushed every spending and crooked payoff they could through. We are now in a position where there is a divided government and those who were elected to stop the spending are now suppose to just cow down? Not if they have any balls.

If you want status quo, sure roll over. But if you want to make a change this is the time to do it when you do gave leverage and te goveanmet is divided. The democrats and republicans who just want to spend and spend - have a choice. Make a deal where there are true cuts to get the debt ceiling raised or face total shutdown of all non-essential government.

[SubGod22]

By that logic, nothing will ever get done and we'll just continue kicking this can down the road. It may work most of the time, but right now, in this situation, it does nothing. Spending still continues to go up. The debt limit increases. And we get to do all of it over again soon. And apparently based off of the rules of negotiation, we'll do the same thing.

At this point, I almost hope we default and things get bad so we can make REAL changes that will actually help this country.

[Maggie]

This fight is a perpetual fight for crying out loud. It has been waged for a hundred plus years.

I agree with most people on this board, I get that people are skeptical of Washington’s ability, or willingness, to deal with the big issues. Boehner’s plan is not THE ANSWER. But it is a step in the right direction. And I trust these newly elected Republicans to continue to move forward. But in order to affect real change 2012 is key.

And if I read or hear anyone writing or saying “kick the can down the road”, I will take a bath in lighter fluid, grab a match, and light myself on fire.

[Maggie]

I'm sick of compromising with ideologues who refuse to acknowledge immenent (sp) fiscal truth and "starting points" that trip and fall two strides past the starting line.

If Ryan and West have endorsed the Boehner plan, count me as disappointed. This whole "super Congress" talk is scary enough. It sounds like a power-grab by the entrenched representatives.


:rant:

As far as I can tell - those ideologues you refer to are not getting anything that they initially wanted. Time to take stock and move on - Rule 23.

[SubGod22]

oh and Maggie is right. From the comments of a few on this board who won't bend at all, it is obvious that they don't understand "divided gov't".

Divided government, compromise, or whatever else you want to call it, has put us in this predicament. It's going to take something different to get us out of it. Agreeing to a debt limit raise that can get raised again next year, then putting in a trivial amount more of so-called "cuts" (or more accurately, increase reductions) over a 10-year period is not going to do anything, nor is it a starting point.

Unless a future Congress (like, next year or year after) actually tackles this issue, we could see a $10+ trillion increase in the debt over the next 10 years. How do those $900 billion in "cuts" sound now? About as good as trying to save the Titanic with a few gallon buckets.

Not only that, next year's Congress could reverse the "cuts". Congress needs its feet held to the fire NOW. We need a balanced budget amendment NOW.

I'm sick of compromising with ideologues who refuse to acknowledge immenent fiscal truth and "starting points" that trip and fall two strides past the starting line.

If Ryan and West have endorsed the Boehner plan, count me as disappointed. This whole "super Congress" talk is scary enough. It sounds like a power-grab by the entrenched representatives.


:rant:

You said it better than I did.

[SubGod22]

Email from Ron Paul

With the White House determined to tack on TRILLIONS more to our national debt, I need your IMMEDIATE help to send a critical message to the Republican congressional leadership.

The sad fact is, right now, Republican leaders can’t make up their minds as to whether they want to lead or cut a backroom deal with President Obama.

What you and I need is someone who stands for conviction over compromise.

I have spent my entire career standing up for what I believe in, even if it meant standing alone.

Conviction and leadership go hand in hand. If you don’t know where you want to end up, it’s virtually impossible to lead.

That’s the problem Republican leaders in Washington have right now.

But you and I can help them make up their minds.

The Republican congressional leadership is susceptible to our pressure – good old-fashioned grassroots pressure.

That’s why I need your help to DEMAND Republican leaders show some backbone and loudly say “No!” to any business as usual, status quo-empowering compromises to raise the debt ceiling.

[Maggie]

You know, from time to time, I have walked out of negotiations. I don’t do it lightly and when I do there is almost always a lingering sense of regret – because I feel, right or wrong, that I didn’t do my job. I failed to persuade the mediator, arbitrator and the opposing party. Sometimes though – that pang of regret doesn’t rear its head. Because no matter what I say, no matter how logical my argument – I just end up beating my head against a fictional brick wall. Mostly the latter happens when I never get a substantive response to my arguments. So after sitting for a day or two or three – I pack my bags.

Toodles. What will happen, will happen.

[WuDrWu]

I understand why some House Republicans, and many on this board, don’t like Boehner’s plan to raise the debt ceiling. They argue while it doesn’t raise taxes, it represents a capitulation to liberal attitudes about government. In their mind, it doesn’t do enough to deal with lowering the nation’s indebtedness. For weeks now, I’ve been hearing and reading all manner of “hold the line” and “Boehner is a sellout” rhetoric. But what I haven’t heard from them is a plan that gets us beyond the moment when the debt ceiling deadline is reached. The long-term hardliner view of the crisis and the necessity to address systematically through the lowering of the actual debt are correct without question. No one on the Right disagrees. But politics is the art of the possible.

That is so brilliant that I'm not sure someone with as low an I.Q. as I possess should even be allowed to comment on it's brilliance.

[SubGod22]

Reid Moves Forward With Debt-Reduction Plan as Boehner Sweetens Deal for GOP

Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid said he plans to move ahead with a debt-limit bill to rival a House Republican proposal that got new life Friday, as President Obama said it's time to move forward with debt-reduction legislation that can be supported by both political parties.

With the U.S. moving perilously closer to default on its loans to cover years of deficit spending, the majority leader announced his plan to cut $2.5 trillion from the deficit over a decade. At the same time, House Speaker John Boehner announced he would include a balanced budget amendment in his proposal, which appeared to earn him the support he needed from recalcitrant Republicans.

Reid said he has invited his counterpart, Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell, to negotiate with him after House Republican leaders were unable to secure votes to pass the debt-reduction bill regrouped.

"I know the Senate compromise bill Democrats have offered is not perfect in Republican' eyes. Nor is it perfect for Democrats," Reid said. "But together, we must make it work for all of us. It is the only option."

McConnell, however, chastised Senate Democrats for sitting on their hands while the House GOP did all the heavy lifting.

"The contrast couldn't be starker. Rather than working the last few days towards a solution to this crisis the way the Republican majority in the House has, the Democratic majority here in the Senate has been wasting precious time rounding up 'no' votes to keep this crisis alive," McConnell said on the Senate floor.

"Rather than being responsible and doing their duty and come up with a bill that can actually pass, they have been busy signing people up for the "Not Good Enough Caucus" and ginning up opposition to everything else," he added.