Russian Probe - Indictments Imminent

[shockfan89_]

NM

[shockfan89_]

Not sure why I can't quote...

You left out that the Trump campaign declined his offer to arrange a meeting with Russian officials. This was also a volunteer aide, not a paid position.

Manafort was under FBI investigation long before joining the Trump Campaign. I find it very odd that the FBI knew Russia was trying to interfere in the election but didn't think it was relevant to warn the Trump Campaign that Manafort was under investigation for ties to Russia...

It is fake news if this is the best they got after investigating for a year (I heard on the news this is probably the end of it because they usually indict the biggest fish first). This has nothing to do with the Trump Campaign at all! George Papadopoulos' infraction did occur during the Trump Campaign but there is no indication of any wrongdoing by Trump.

Below is a report from CNN back in August. Again, nothing new here:

(CNN)A former Trump campaign volunteer offered to set up a meeting between campaign officials for then-candidate Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin last March, according to a source that reviewed a March 2016 email from the campaign aide -- but that meeting was dismissed by campaign leadership and Trump was advised not to do it.

[CBB_Fan]

Not sure why I can't quote...
Below is a report from CNN back in August. Again, nothing new here:

(CNN)A former Trump campaign volunteer offered to set up a meeting between campaign officials for then-candidate Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin last March, according to a source that reviewed a March 2016 email from the campaign aide -- but that meeting was dismissed by campaign leadership and Trump was advised not to do it.

There is some new information, as Papadopoulos (hence "Papa" because I am not typing that a second time) plead guilty to lying to the FBI. The timeline was as follows:

March 6 - Papa learns he will become a foreign policy adviser to Trump, with the explicit goal of improving US-Russia relations.
March 24 - Papa meets with Professor and Female Russian National.
March 26 - Papa tells campaign about March 24 meeting and said the topic was to "arrange a meeting between us and the Russian leadership." Campaign said that no commitments could be made at that date.

This is the old information. The new information is:

March 31 - Papa attends national security meeting with Trump and other foreign policy advisers. He introduced himself as someone that could arrange a meeting between Trump and Putin.
April - Multiple emails between Papa and Female Russian National to set up meeting
April 25 - Email by Papa to campaign "The Russian government has an open invitation by Putin for Mr. Trump"
April 26 - Papa met Professor, who told Papa that the Russians "the Russians had emails of Clintons"
May onwards - Papa continued to work to establish a meeting

There is a very real case that Papa was discussing multiple meetings. His account is that the Russians very actively pursued a direct contact with Trump, but Papa also worked on "an off the record" meeting between one or more Campaign representatives and "member of president putin's office and the mfa" that was approved by Trump's side.

This conversation starts mid-June; the Don Jr. meeting was July 9th. Natalia Veselnitskaya was the Russian lawyer at the meeting, revealed two days ago to have been in contact with the Kremlin before the meeting. As a Moscow based lawyer buying 7-digit property on a 5-digit salary she likely was associated with the Moscow-based Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA).

As a reminder, the three prominent Trump affiliates in the room were Kushner, Donald Jr., and Manafort.

[shockfan89_]

That same Russian lawyer also worked with the Podesta group. Manafort also consulted for the Podesta group during the same time the activities took place. Interesting enough, Tony Podesta just stepped down from the Podesta group. Looks like the charges maybe more related to the Clinton Campaign Chairman than the Trump campaign...

[SB Shock]

Tony Podesta stepping down from his lobbying firm to fight the allegations that are being investigated by the special council.

[CBB_Fan]

That same Russian lawyer also worked with the Podesta group. Manafort also consulted for the Podesta group during the same time the activities took place. Interesting enough, Tony Podesta just stepped down from the Podesta group. Looks like the charges maybe more related to the Clinton Campaign Chairman than the Trump campaign...

I think you may disappointed as to how the Podesta group is involved (and I have NO idea where you got the idea Natalia V worked with the Podesta group; I haven't seen that outside of hokey conspiracy Youtube channels). It seems there is a big commotion on the right to claim this is all related to the dossier or Uranium One, but that seems to strain credibility for a lot of reasons.

Most likely, the Podestas were implicated financially in the money laundering case, not some conspiracy against Trump. In fact it is likely the same as with Manafort, kickbacks for pushing Russia policy, specifically for getting Hillary to oppose the Magnitsky Act:

With the help of the research team, we killed a Bloomberg story trying to link HRC's opposition to the Magnitsky bill to a $500,000 speech that WJC [Bill Clinton] gave in Moscow - John Podesta

This very much does not absolve suspicions of Trump, nor does it imply the charges implicate the Clinton campaign more than Trump. Instead, if the Podestas go down it proves the Russian money laundering apparatus was real and found fertile ground providing kickbacks to those associated with ECMU, specifically Manafort, who clearly benefited egregiously from the money laundering.

Basically, the brother of Clinton's campaign manager is lightly implicated. Trump's actual campaign manager and two advisers have been indicted, and his son and son-in-law seem directly implicated as well. That said, would not be surprised to learn of some level of Russian influence on both campaigns.

[shockfan89_]

Lol Trump's Campaign Chairman is implicated for work he did with Clinton's Campaign Chairman's family. Trump's Campaign Chairman has not been implicated for anything he did as part of the Trump Campaign. The charges today have ZERO evidence of anything to do with the election.

Like I said, what is even more interesting is that Manafort was being actively investigated by the FBI before he took the job as Trump Campaign Chairman, and the FBI knew of Russia's attempts to "influence" the election, but they didn't even bother to advise the Trump Campaign about the Manafort investigation or his ties to Russia? Seems very suspicious to me that we are worried about collusion with Russia but the FBI wouldn't have even thought to warn one of our Presidential candidates they were hiring someone with Russian ties...

[shoxilla]

Whoever hires Altuve first wins.

[jdshock]

but they didn't even bother to advise the Trump Campaign about the Manafort investigation or his ties to Russia? Seems very suspicious to me that we are worried about collusion with Russia but the FBI wouldn't have even thought to warn one of our Presidential candidates they were hiring someone with Russian ties...

Why would they? Employers are responsible for doing their own background checks.

You know what would happen if the FBI always revealed who it was investigating? It'd get sued every single time the investigation turned up nothing.

[wufan]

Why would they? Employers are responsible for doing their own background checks.

You know what would happen if the FBI always revealed who it was investigating? It'd get sued every single time the investigation turned up nothing.

I’m also not going to blame The FBI for Trump’s hiring practices, but I do think they should have given him a heads up. I would think this could be done without having to public ally announce every investigation.

[Aargh]

Wouldn't any kind of a heads up pretty much violate the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing?

[SB Shock]

A “heads-up” could have also alerted Manafort that he was a target of a counter-intelligence investigation and allowed him to destroy evidence.

[Aargh]

I listened to bothj Fox and CNN and I find what CNN is reporting to be more credible. Here's my reasoning.

1. I believe the Russians were trying to infiltrate both camps in the election.
2. What the Russians had for leverage was Hillary's emails.
3. I believe Russian politics are corrupt, and something of value will be used to gain something of value.
4. If the Democrats had gone to bed with the Russians, the emails would never have seen the light of day. The Russians would have gotten something in exchange for not making the emails public. That did not happen. This weakens Trump's position that the investigation should be focusing on Hillary.
5. The emails were offered to Trump's group and at least one meeting was held based on those emails.
6. The emails were released.
7. I still do not believe the Russians used their leverage without getting something in return.

I have no clue or indication if any of this can be linked directly to Trump. Of course lower-ranking members of the campaign would have been used. Trump is unlikely to have been personally involved with the Russians. Nixon was not personally involved in breaking into the Watergate complex.

[wufan]

Wouldn't any kind of a heads up pretty much violate the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing?

No. It’s quite common for law enforcement to notify someone if they are a suspect. For instance, Manifort has known for several months that he was under investigation.

[ShockingButTrue]

I listened to bothj Fox and CNN and I find what CNN is reporting to be more credible. Here's my reasoning.

1. I believe the Russians were trying to infiltrate both camps in the election.
2. What the Russians had for leverage was Hillary's emails.
3. I believe Russian politics are corrupt, and something of value will be used to gain something of value.
4. If the Democrats had gone to bed with the Russians, the emails would never have seen the light of day. The Russians would have gotten something in exchange for not making the emails public. That did not happen. This weakens Trump's position that the investigation should be focusing on Hillary.
5. The emails were offered to Trump's group and at least one meeting was held based on those emails.
6. The emails were released.
7. I still do not believe the Russians used their leverage without getting something in return.

I have no clue or indication if any of this can be linked directly to Trump. Of course lower-ranking members of the campaign would have been used. Trump is unlikely to have been personally involved with the Russians. Nixon was not personally involved in breaking into the Watergate complex.

... sure. Keep hope and change alive?