Russian Probe - Indictments Imminent

[SB Shock]

At least one person was charged Friday in connection with Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s criminal investigation into alleged Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election, according to people familiar with the matter.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/first-charges-filed-in-russia-probe-led-by-special-counsel-robert-mueller-1509161000

My guesses will be in order of likelihood. Manafort supposedly had been told he would be indicted. If it would go deeper than one of these 3 then it might be problematic.

1. Paul Manafort

2. Michael Flynn

3. Carter Page

Thing I'm going to be interested in is what is the charge?

1. If the charge is some type of money laundering, actual collusion or conspiracy charge then Trump next year will be even more rockier. or his last.

2, If the charge is some secondary charge that they found illegal activity in the past not related to the actual Russian probe then this story will more bark than bite for at least Trump.

It kind of seems like Mueller is grandstanding by LEAKING ON FRIDAY that an indictment is coming down on Monday.

[boltforge]

It kind of seems like Mueller is grandstanding by LEAKING ON FRIDAY that an indictment is coming down on Monday.

This is a good example of the fact Mueller is just a power hungry politician. And basically everyone sees him as dirty anyway. The WSJ had a good editorial on why he should resign from this.

If he indicts Democrats they will point to him trying to appease Republicans to cover his behavior. If he indicts Republicans they will point to his work (or non-work) on Uranium One, the FBI paying for Russian propaganda, and the Clintons. Everything he does is tainted and anyone he tries to bring charges against will simply be able to claim "Mueller is part of the Russian money train!" All they need to do is push out that Mueller used the Fusion GPS / Russian propaganda paid for by the DNC, Clintons, and FBI.

What a mess.

Simple questions ... Come Monday would anyone trust a hidden process run by Mueller? Or will you doubt that anything he controlled was actually done honestly and without regard to politics?

He ALREADY trashed that by leaking on Friday.

[Aargh]

This is a good example of the fact Mueller is just a power hungry politician. And basically everyone sees him as dirty anyway. The WSJ had a good editorial on why he should resign from this.

If he indicts Democrats they will point to him trying to appease Republicans to cover his behavior. If he indicts Republicans they will point to his work (or non-work) on Uranium One, the FBI paying for Russian propaganda, and the Clintons. Everything he does is tainted and anyone he tries to bring charges against will simply be able to claim "Mueller is part of the Russian money train!" All they need to do is push out that Mueller used the Fusion GPS / Russian propaganda paid for by the DNC, Clintons, and FBI.

What a mess.

Simple questions ... Come Monday would anyone trust a hidden process run by Mueller? Or will you doubt that anything he controlled was actually done honestly and without regard to politics?

He ALREADY trashed that by leaking on Friday.

Where is this coming from? When he was appointed I thought he had widespread bipartisan support and was known for his honesty and integrity. I believe people on both sides were saying he'd be the perfect person to have in that position and he'd do an honest, yet thorough investigation.

Does that only apply if he exonerates Trump and his political allies on all counts?

Your post sounds more like the White House's spin on the investigation, which would then be reported by Fox without question.

[Aargh]

Interesting, apparently disagreeing with the White House spin and Fox News gets flagged as Spam.

[boltforge]

Weirdly I have your entire post in my inbox. Spending decades in the Washington power system is not good for anyone. Everyone should do their 8 years at most and then walk away never to return.

[KraRam]

[SB Shock]

Interesting, apparently disagreeing with the White House spin and Fox News gets flagged as Spam.

Actually I think it is a general problem with the board. I had a entry in the basketball forum flagged as spam.

But to your point on Mueller. At the start of the investigation - it did seem that he was a good choice until people started looking at him in more detail and as new information emerges so does it look like he is right in the middle of the mess. He seem to have some serious conflict of interests. He has even hired a lawyer who defended the clinton foundation. I think in the end, regardless how this ends there will be less confidence in the justice department.

[boltforge]

The above posts are proving my point. No one can come out of this mess without the ability to point to problems with the group.

Some people will point out that Mueller's history says he is a good man. He oversaw the prosecution of Noriega and Gotti. He stood up against domestic wiretaps (kind of amusing now considering the reason the FBI paid Fusion GPS). So we can believe him when he goes against "Whoever".

Some people will point out he ran the FBI while they collected information about Russian bribery and allowed it to get hidden from public view. Mueller is close to Comey and Comey should by under investigation. He leads a group of 16 prosecutors with an unlimited budget the DOJ refuses to be known publicly. The FBI and DOJ have shown a desire to expand their power via leaks, selective prosecution, and protecting select groups of people. So we can't believe him when he goes against "Whoever".

Anyone (Clinton, Trump, Podesta, Manafort, etc) will be able to claim taint. Especially if this all got kicked off by Fusion GPS.

[Aargh]

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTtpDK5HToI-viK-aO3QsnIuLcL1qmbjJe_FDRG6RDNcJhFxVRn.jpg

[SB Shock]

Looks to Manafort indicted. So no real surprise because he had been told previously he would be indicted.

[CBB_Fan]

No surprise Manafort has been indicted (along with Rick Gates, an associate). Charges are:

Conspiracy against the United States, conspiracy to launder money, failure to file reports for foreign bank accounts, unregistered agent of a foreign principal, false and misleading FARA statements, and false statements.

[SB Shock]

So does this mean the Podesta brothers are next? It looks like Manafort was in a business relationship with the Podesta brother during the period the charges are made for.

[shockfan89_]

Am I correct that this occurred between 2006 and 2014? Before Manafort was even part of the Trump Campaign? So in other words, nothing on Trump collusion but I have to charge someone associated with the Trump campaign with something. Is that about the size of it?

[CBB_Fan]

Am I correct that this occurred between 2006 and 2014? Before Manafort was even part of the Trump Campaign? So in other words, nothing on Trump collusion but I have to charge someone associated with the Trump campaign with something. Is that about the size of it?

No:

In order to hide Ukraine payments from US authorities, from approximately 2006 to 2016, MANAFORT and GATES laundered the money through scores of United States and foreign corporations, partnerships, and bank accounts.

In addition, Manafort used his hidden overseas wealth to enjoy a lavish lifestyle without paying taxes. He spent millions on luxury goods for himself and his extended family and this probably extends to the present day. He also used that money to purchase multi-million dollar properties.

Here's where I'm going with this. Manafort got "caught" buying property through LLCs with hard cash, a huge sign of money laundering, starting in 2006 in NYC. One of those properties was a condo in Trump Tower, purchased under John Hannah LLC in 2006. That exact LLC is named in the Domestic Entities section of the report as one of the entities that engaged in the money laundering scheme.

Furthermore the scheme in the indictment continues into 2017, and includes the false statements made by Manafort and Gates. The first count states that "From in or about and between 2006 and 2017, both dates approximate and inclusive, in the District of Columbia and elsewhere, the defendants PAUL. J. MANAFORT, JR. and RICHARD W. GATES III, together with others, knowingly and intentionally conspired to defraud the United States ..."

In summary:

1. Money laundering scheme was from 2006-2017, through the entire campaign
2. Trump apartment implicated, possibly even the very first property bought with laundered money

[ShockerPhi]

Even if none of this Russia Investigation points back to Trump, it's at least obvious now that at least SOMETHING fishy was going on with some of Trump's aides (whether related to the campaign itself or not). This is why there was an investigation. It wasn't fake news. Who knows how much longer this will last and now many more people will go down.

[CBB_Fan]

Guess we aren't just learning about Manafort today. Foreign policy adviser George Papadopoulos, arrested in July, secretly plead guilty on Oct. 5 to making false statements during an interview with the Federal Bureau of Investigation. It seems he got a plea bargain, as he also admits to trying to arrange a meeting between the Trump campaign and Russian officials to give hacked Clinton emails in a quid pro-quo arrangement (sounding like the Don Jr. meeting).

It is arguably much bigger news than the more boring financial crimes, as it is the missing link in the Russian collusion story establishing quid pro quo.