Russian Probe - Indictments Imminent

[C0|dB|00ded]

At this point I'd like to see a deep investigation conducted into Mueller and his team. I'd like to find out who they're working for. Of course we all have our suspicions but this investigation has done tremendous damage to the fabric of America during a time when we should all be partying like rock stars with one of the strongest economies in history.

Step back for a moment and ask yourself what has been the single greatest American destabilizer since 9/11? Ask yourself another question; who have been the beneficiaries of every subsequent Mueller release? Who waits with bated breath for the "obvious" hammer that's coming down on Trump at any moment.

We know Obama, the Never Trumpers, Screech, various agents at the CIA and FBI have been involved with the illegal dossier and wire taps. This is a scandal that could make the Kennedy assassinations look like a parking ticket. Perhaps it's just too big. We are at a pivotal time in our country when atheists and communists seek to fundamentally change this nation for good.

Perhaps we ARE in the midst of a Russian attack. But wouldn't it be just perfect if the REAL attack was actually coming from the ones charging others with it? A simple misdirection.

Putin doesn't hide very well the fact that he longs for the days of the Soviet Socialist Republic. Who in this country is behind the Socialization of America? Put those names on a list and I think you'll find your Russian operatives among them.

T


...:cool:

[Kung Wu]

I didn’t read everyone’s take on this, but the only crimes that have been brought against members of the Trump campaign are lying to the FBI.

The rest of the discussion is on is whether or not that is a good behavior. It isn’t a good behavior, but I believe that the right is being unfairly targeted for this.

Is it good behavior if the investigators are corrupt? An extreme example (which obviously doesn't apply to the extreme in this case): Let's say you are a Jew and Hitler's henchmen are investigating you -- is there a situation where the best "behavior" is to lie to them?

[jdshock]

The extreme scenario is a moral question, not a legal one.

I'm glad you agree that it's obviously not analogous here.

[Kung Wu]

It's both, isn't it? But I'm not sure what the point of distinction is for?

[wufan]

I think there are reasons that one would lie. It’s still illegal, and lying to a federal investigator for political gain is not a good behavior when in a just society. I believe we live in a just society, and that’s one of the core reasons I disagree with most liberal positions.

do I think it’s fair? No, but I don’t believe we live in a fair society. I think we live in a society where you play the cards your dealt to the best of your ability. Those that have been indicted, right or wrong, we’re done so justly, but not fairly, and they played their hand poorly.

[jdshock]

I didn’t read everyone’s take on this, but the only crimes that have been brought against members of the Trump campaign are lying to the FBI.

The rest of the discussion is on is whether or not that is a good behavior. It isn’t a good behavior, but I believe that the right is being unfairly targeted for this.

This is patently false.

Roger Stone was an adviser to the Trump campaign and he was also hit with a witness tampering charge. Manafort's were related to conspiracy against the United States, money laundering, failing to file reports, acting as an unregistered agent of a foreign nation, and making false statements. Gates's were essentially the same. Cohen was hit on campaign finance, tax evasion, plus perjury.

Papadopoulos and Flynn were both hit for lying to the FBI, though, to be clear, they were hit for lying to the FBI about involvement with Russian agents and the Russian government. It's information central to the ongoing investigation.

The idea that the right is being unfairly targeted is also just so obscene. Mueller is a republican. This was brought by the Trump administration's DOJ. MAYBE there is a vast conspiracy against the Trump administration (there isn't), but this is not some conspiracy against the "right."

[shockfan89_]

And none of those things you listed had to do with the Trump campaign and collusion with Russia. Except for Cohen pleading guilty to a campaign finance violation that likely isn't even a campaign finance violation. You know the Mueller probe is desperate when they convince people to plead guilty to something that likely wasn't even a crime. This would be similar to a police pulling you over for going 55 in a 55 and writing you a ticket for 60 in a 55 and saying if you sign this I won't have your car searched for drugs and delay you for the next 4 hours. Then said officer going back to the station and boasting that they caught someone speeding. Technically speaking you pleaded guilty to speeding. And technically speaking that cop is an a$$hole.

[ShockerPrez]

I hadn't seen that many FBI tac teams in action since they apprehended fugitive Elian Gonzales.

[shockfan89_]

jdshock - Would you agree that paying for the Trump dossier was colluding with a foreign national for the purpose of obtaining opposition research? If not, why not?

[wufan]

This is patently false.

Roger Stone was an adviser to the Trump campaign and he was also hit with a witness tampering charge. Manafort's were related to conspiracy against the United States, money laundering, failing to file reports, acting as an unregistered agent of a foreign nation, and making false statements. Gates's were essentially the same. Cohen was hit on campaign finance, tax evasion, plus perjury.

Papadopoulos and Flynn were both hit for lying to the FBI, though, to be clear, they were hit for lying to the FBI about involvement with Russian agents and the Russian government. It's information central to the ongoing investigation.

The idea that the right is being unfairly targeted is also just so obscene. Mueller is a republican. This was brought by the Trump administration's DOJ. MAYBE there is a vast conspiracy against the Trump administration (there isn't), but this is not some conspiracy against the "right."

You are correct about the charges. I should have been more clear that none of them have been charged with working with the Russian gov with the purpose of stealing the election. They lied about their affiliation with certain foreign officials or circumstances around that involvement. That’s the closest to illegal activity around the original counter intelligence investigation that I have seen.

I do do not find my belief that the right is being unfairly targeted to be obscene.

[jdshock]

Targeted by whom, though? Mueller and the DOJ are all republicans. Again, maybe Trump is targeted, but the right is very clearly not being targeted by anyway.

[wufan]

Targeted by the media and the Democrats. The media creates outrage with the liberal base. The democrats demand an investigation. The pro-Hillary wing of the FBI agrees, and the DOJ stays out of it.

There’s zero things wrong with that scenerio. I would say the Trump right is being unfairly targeted, because we didn’t have the same level of investigation against Dems that were running false flags in Georgia, or the Dems in Cali that were counting late votes. Those aren’t high profile media-hyped cases with FBI swat teams arresting folks.

If you disagree with those examples, I have others. If you disagree with the premise altogether, that’s okay too. I just don’t view it to be absurd.

[jdshock]

jdshock - Would you agree that paying for the Trump dossier was colluding with a foreign national for the purpose of obtaining opposition research? If not, why not?

Collusion is a completely meaningless phrase. "Collusion," in the strictest sense, is not illegal. This has been discussed ad nauseum on here. We know, without a doubt, that Trump campaign officials met with Russians in the hopes of getting dirt on Clinton. In the ordinary sense of the word "collusion," that meeting with Russians was "collusion." It's not clear that it's a crime, though. It might be it might not be. I have tried (someone call me out if I've failed) to never use the word "collusion" as the litmus test for whether someone in the Trump administration did something bad.

So, it's just impossible to answer your question. If all a prosecutor had to do was prove collusion, then it seems somewhat likely that the dossier would fall under that category. As would that Trump Tower meeting with the Russians. At least, I'm open to the idea that both are a form of collusion. But I have not seen a thorough or compelling argument that the dossier was something that was illegally obtained or amounts to criminal activity.

[shockfan89_]

Collusion is a completely meaningless phrase. "Collusion," in the strictest sense, is not illegal. This has been discussed ad nauseum on here. We know, without a doubt, that Trump campaign officials met with Russians in the hopes of getting dirt on Clinton. In the ordinary sense of the word "collusion," that meeting with Russians was "collusion." It's not clear that it's a crime, though. It might be it might not be. I have tried (someone call me out if I've failed) to never use the word "collusion" as the litmus test for whether someone in the Trump administration did something bad.

So, it's just impossible to answer your question. If all a prosecutor had to do was prove collusion, then it seems somewhat likely that the dossier would fall under that category. As would that Trump Tower meeting with the Russians. At least, I'm open to the idea that both are a form of collusion. But I have not seen a thorough or compelling argument that the dossier was something that was illegally obtained or amounts to criminal activity.

Thank you for the honest answer. So, you just proved my point to why the Mueller witch hunt should end TODAY! It serves no legal basis other than to drag it's target, President Trump, and his associates through the mud. The same could easily be done to the Clinton campaign and likely uncover way more wrong doing and criminal behavior. The meeting at Trump tower, Roger Stone trying to obtain Clinton e-mails, Access Hollywood tape, Trump dossier, none of those things are illegal or amount to criminal behavior. All of those things serve the same purpose and that is opposition research. I personally feel Clinton trying to conceal paying a foreign national by hiding the money through a law firm, and then through a research intelligence firm is much worse than any of the other items that the Special Counsel seems enamored with. But I agree with your conclusion that since collusion is not even a crime, Mueller's probe into Russia's attempts to influence the 2016 Presidential election has morphed into a witch hunt.

[Kung Wu]

Thank you for the honest answer. So, you just proved my point to why the Mueller witch hunt should end TODAY! It serves no legal basis other than to drag it's target, President Trump, and his associates through the mud. The same could easily be done to the Clinton campaign and likely uncover way more wrong doing and criminal behavior. The meeting at Trump tower, Roger Stone trying to obtain Clinton e-mails, Access Hollywood tape, Trump dossier, … All of those things serve the same purpose and that is opposition research. I personally feel Clinton trying to conceal paying a foreign national by hiding the money through a law firm, and then through a research intelligence firm is much worse than any of the other items that the Special Counsel seems enamored with. But I agree with your conclusion that since collusion is not even a crime, Mueller's probe into Russia's attempts to influence the 2016 Presidential election has morphed into a witch hunt.

Clinton!? What about all the Democrat congressmen and congresswomen that participated in Wunder Poopin'?!? It was posted on Shockernet, so it's not like it isn't known publicly. We need a special investigator to get to the bottom of whether it actually occurred and whether those Chinese and Russian agents were able to blackmail our leaders! The special investigator will have complete access to financial records and all digital communications for everybody involved, so we'll see if it occurred and whether any other crimes took place by bad actors.

[jdshock]

Thank you for the honest answer. So, you just proved my point to why the Mueller witch hunt should end TODAY! It serves no legal basis other than to drag it's target, President Trump, and his associates through the mud. The same could easily be done to the Clinton campaign and likely uncover way more wrong doing and criminal behavior. The meeting at Trump tower, Roger Stone trying to obtain Clinton e-mails, Access Hollywood tape, Trump dossier, none of those things are illegal or amount to criminal behavior. All of those things serve the same purpose and that is opposition research. I personally feel Clinton trying to conceal paying a foreign national by hiding the money through a law firm, and then through a research intelligence firm is much worse than any of the other items that the Special Counsel seems enamored with. But I agree with your conclusion that since collusion is not even a crime, Mueller's probe into Russia's attempts to influence the 2016 Presidential election has morphed into a witch hunt.

Whoa nelly.... That is not at all what I meant or said. My point is that "collusion" is not some magic word. There ARE criminal acts that we, as ordinary people, may describe as "collusion." It's just not a criminal term.

[ShockCrazy]

You can believe what you want but facts are facts. FISA warrants are pretty much handed out like candy when the DOJ asks for them. That could be debated as an incorrect policy, but the fact remains there is ZERO absolutely ZERO evidence this was outside the normal procedure of a FISA warrant. And even with changed policy there is a very real chance it would have been issued anyways.

Just read NPR's summary. It handles it all nicely. Never in the FISA warrant was the dossier treated as fact. They believed it was credible(again credible doesn't mean true, it means you have reason to believe) so that's what they were investigating. Oh also the despite narratives that somehow STILL exist, from quotes you can see there, the FISA warrant did disclose it as initiated by opposition research on page 15.

https://www.npr.org/2018/07/23/631343524/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-much-discussed-carter-page-fisa-document

If you wish to peruse the redacted applications there are here: https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthel.../optimized.pdf

No one said Stone seeking docs was a crime(though depending on what he knew it still could have), but when asked about it he completely lied under oath multiple times. That's what he's being charged with.

[Shockm]

Shock Crazy left out the FACT that the FISA court was never told that this Opposition Research was gathered and paid for by the H. Clinton campaign.

[ShockCrazy]

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. I pointed out it's on page 15 but carry on.

[wufan]

The suggestion that it’s a mass conspiracy to get Trump is wrong. All you need is opportunity and motive from individuals in key places.

My work place is regulated by the gov. It requires that one person perform a job, and that must be attached to an electronic audit trail that is administered by someone outside the organization. A second individual must verify the results of the individual and the audit trail. A third person from another organization must review the data. A fourth person must audit the third person. Including the administrator, every action must include 5 individuals from two organizations.

These safegaurds of data integrity are not applied to the government. You need one person from the FBI, one from the Democratic Party, and a complicit media.

[ShockingButTrue]

https://dailycaller.com/2019/02/12/u...-trump-russia/

This report issued by the Senate Intelligence group says all of the allegations were baseless (for what crime, we still don't know). That much was already common knowledge though.

Case closed. Oh, wait...

[ShockingButTrue]

impeach.jpg

Sent with gratitude, to you-know-who.

[ShockingButTrue]

https://dailycaller.com/2019/03/18/fusion-gps-steele-dossier-media/

Blame FoxNews my a**...