Most American are Pro-Life instead of Pro-Abortion

[kcshocker11]

I commend pro lifers for wanting a perfect world, but reality dictates and has dictated otherwise. I also find it odd that those who profess to want no Govt intrusion in their lives think its ok in this case.

I believe life begins at conception. One of the purposes of the government is to protect life and liberty. There is no conflict there. The way I see it, government is currently intruding (actually, aiding and abetting) on the lives of the pre-born.

If abortion is against the law and my daughter (I don't have one) were to violate that law, she deserves whatever consequences the law dictates.

:good:

8)

[shocksrox]

that's a nice cop-out with no real facts - comparing pro-life people to the taliban

you are a terrible human being, plain and simple

[shocksrox]

So if abortion was outlawed and a young woman, say your daughter gets an illegal one should she be convicted of murder?

all you can do is raise your children the best you can, and instill the morals and values in them that will guide them through life....if they choose to ignore those morals and values, what can you do? you can't exactly ground them when they're 20+

[rrshock]

I think the ultimate debate comes down to when life starts. I am not sold on it being the second conception happens.

I don't agree with abortion either, but I am also afraid that if they make it illegal to have this medical procedure done, then what's to stop them from making other medical procedures illegal?

This will forever be a debate that will cause problems between people. If it is made illegal, people will violate the law. If it remains legal, people will continue trying to murder the doctors that perform the procedures. It's a no win situation, no matter how you look at it.

[RoyalShock]

I see, well KCshox doent believe it does. So, you are willing to force your beliefs on others, knowing perfectly well that yours are founded on religous grounds! Sounds a bit like the Taliban. 8)

I don't care what KCshox believes.

Did you read my first post in this topic? Yes, I have religious views that confirm my stance, but I can justify it by secular means, as well.

A fertilized human egg, left alone, will develop into a sentient human. That is our understanding of human biology.

I have absolutely no problem forcing my beliefs on those who wish to end another human life.

I don't agree with abortion either, but I am also afraid that if they make it illegal to have this medical procedure done, then what's to stop them from making other medical procedures illegal?

Really? What other "procedures" end a human life?

[WuDrWu]

kc11 has now compared many of us to Hitler and the Taliban.


Which is the party of inclusion and which is the party of hatred and divisiveness?



I believe the worst I've done is call his opinions stupid.....and I can get fairly animated.

[1979Shocker]

If you believe in the Bible, life begins a conception.

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; before you were born I sanctified you;...

[WuDrWu]

So if abortion was outlawed and a young woman, say your daughter gets an illegal one should she be convicted of murder?

It's always going to be someone's daughter. Doesn't sound like you are interested in making any tough decisions. Imagine that.

Sorry Doc but I lived when abortion was outlawed its you who doesnt want to address tough decisions. Are you or arent you going to charge them , and if your are how many prisons are you going to build to house them.
This will not be like a girl who dumps a baby in a trash can, there will be thousands if not millions.


This is just one of the questions that would have to be addressed, Would you charge the boy if he assisted in convincing the girl to abort? How about a woman who aborted because of rape or incest? Would you charge the provider? If in the past when Mexico and Canada provided abortions to Americans would you cut off diplomatic relations, perhaps invade (after all more would be murdered here than on 9-11)?

KC , I agree with you, late term is disturbing and needs only to be used to save the life of the mother. You are like me Pro Choice not pro abortion! Having lived in an America where it was against the law, I know it didnt work. Abortions didnt stop and wont if outlawed!

If one wishes to debate the existence of a soul as grounds, well good luck.


I commend pro lifers for wanting a perfect world, but reality dictates and has dictated otherwise. I find it odd that those who profess to want no Govt intrusion in their lives think its ok in this case. I also find it interesting that people will march and shout murderer about abortions and then cheer when hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians are killed in Iraq or do nothing to help starving people around the world whose daily lives are in misery.

Perhaps they just need an example. Heres a man who has saved over a billion lives.

http://www.worldfoodprize.org/about/Borlaug.htm

Because of his achievements to prevent hunger, famine and misery around the world, it is said that Dr. Borlaug has "saved more lives than any other person who has ever lived."

(Hmm I wonder what Jesus would think?)
Now thats a movement I can truely support!

Sorry if you dont agree!
8) 8)

Boy am I laughing hard now. So I am the one that doesn't want to address tough questions? Like what?

I am anti abortion. It is killing, plain and simple. It should not be allowed and it DAMNED sure shouldn't be sponsored and paid for by our government with my tax dollars.

However, I own some form of common sense. There are a lot of things I wish for, but I would settle at this point to stem the tide. Incest, rape and mother's life could be exceptions based upon some legal/doctor agreement. Unwanted children for those wishing abortions? State funded palaces for those children that cannot be adopted. Scholarships to the best schools, college education paid for if they were so inclined beyond the age of 18. The best there is. I'll pay for it from the money I will take from welfare. I can promise you my people will manage it better than the people do today. The "parents" of such children will have NO contact whatsoever, punishable by incarceration until the child reaches adulthood. Beyond that it is their own problem.

Punishment? How about sterilization? Is that soft enough for you? No extra jails. Decisions we make have consequences. Your problem is that you don't want there to ever be consequences. I have no problem sterilizing the father as well, unless he can prove he did not have a part in the crime and he would have taken care of the child. Also, neither of them would be eligible for welfare ever in their lives. NONE.

We need to return to an era of personal responsibility.


Millions of unwanted babies? You are a fearmongering idiot.

Murder hasn't stopped and it's outlawed. Another dumb comment. Perhaps we should just allow murder too? See how stupid that is?

More baseless fearmongering by you....who is "cheering" when "hundreds of thousands" of innocent civilian Iraqis are killed? 1. Who is cheering? 2. When and where have hundreds of thousands been killed...3. How many innocent civilians?

So now we are doing "NOTHING" to help starving people around the world.....NOTHING. NOTHING except the BILLIONS of tax dollars pouring out of this country every year to countless cities and countries all over the world....NOTHING except the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS brave AMERICAN SOLDIERS that have given their lives defending freedom all over the world, often times for people that beg them to help then eventually spit on their graves. NOTHING except more than EVERYONE else.

[Maggie]

I thought this thread was supposed to be a discussion about why public opinion has purportedly shifted toward the pro-life movement in recent years. :whistle:

[SubGod22]

:clap:

[ShockerFever]

Well, well, well, looks like SN is now the pow-wow gathering for Pro-Lifers. Anyway, you will never convince me that life begins at conception. What you say is life, I say is no more than a group of cells, no different than the red and white cells flowing throughout your body.

Now, if a woman cannot make up her mind on what she wants to do by the first 39 days, then honey, you are having a baby. Unless the mother's life is in danger, I wholeheartedly disagree with 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions. Just plain wrong. Research has convinced me however, that after 40 days, there is sufficient fetal development to what I believe is the definition of life. The existence of brainwaves.

So ladies, first off have your man 'jimmy up'. If you get pregnant, then you better make up your mind before 40 days because if it were up to me, then you are going to have the baby.

Do you really think there is much difference in the fetus between day 39 and day 41? Why not err on the side of caution and pick a logical time when life begins.. let's say when the sperm and egg meet and are no longer two separate human cells, but one that is unified and has a totally new genetic structure?

Those same 'group of cells' are still apart of you today KC. They're definitely not your mother's, are they?

[ShockerFever]

I am in total agreement of what Royal and Doc just stated. If it wasn't for completely inept parenting which results in children and young adults doing whatever the f*** they want, our society would be less dependent on its needs to take it out on the lives of innocent developing human beings.

If you don't want a baby, then maybe you should think about opening up the ol' legs. Otherwise, DEAL WITH IT.

[Triticum]

There are lots of ambiguous and debatable issues here. People that hold any one view firmly, especially due to religious convictions, are not likely to be swayed. Certainly not by insults, even if they are somewhat accurate or funny or what have you.

Without even getting into some of the associated issues (access to birth control, stem cell research, fertility clinics, etc.), here are some questions to chew on.

When does life begin? Before conception? At conception? At implantation? When heart tissue starts contracting? When brain activity is detectable? At birth? Sometime after birth? Most people, like I do, choose "at conception". The issue is, however, is the beginning of life the same thing as the beginning of personhood? To that question, even different religions give different answers.

If it is permissible to withhold some adult rights from children, is it permissible to withhold additional rights from the unborn, such as the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? If not, what if the unborn's right to life infringes on the mother's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

Should it be a crime for a pregnant woman to have a cigarette or a drink?

Does restricting access to abortion actually reduce the numbers of abortions?

Would abortion be ok if the baby were to have severe birth defects and be unable to survive outside the womb? What if it could only survive for 1 month? What if this wasn't discovered until the 7th month of pregnancy?

We will never make any progress on this issue (or any other issue) as long as we see ourselves as only right and noble and others as insidious and treacherous. No matter how strongly we feel about our answers to any of the above questions, it's important to recognize that other people can feel just as strongly, yet hold a different viewpoint.

Personally, it seems the right thing to do would be to reduce the numbers of unwanted pregnancies, which could be done by committing resources to practical solutions. That means real sex education, including abstinence, but certainly not abstinence-only. That means providing access to family planning services and contraceptives. It also means providing resources to combat domestic violence and sexual abuse (even in marriage, not all unprotected sex is consensual). It also would mean providing access to services that would help with the raising of the child (especially special-needs children) so that for a pregnant woman, choosing life would not mean choosing a life of neglect and need.

[pogo]

A well thought out and delivered reply. I would say everyone could use this as a starting point to examine just how difficult a question this is.

[rjl]

Acerbic discussion that would target the intelligence of anyone who would be pro-choice or anti-choice aside, I feel it's as simple as this:

The most debated facet of the abortion debate is "at what point does life begin: conception, or birth?"

I choose to take this stance:

Since we do not know with 100% certainty at which point life begins, conception or birth, I personally believe it is wrong as there is a 50/50 chance it begins at conception. Knowingly risking those odds is paramount to murder.

However, the law works conversely. Since we don't know whether life begins at conception or birth, we can't institute laws that forbid abortion since the grounds on which they would be based--that life begins at conception and abortion is therefore murder--are untenable.

In that way, ladies and gentlemen, it is possible to be against abortion yet still vote pro-choice. I have made the decision that abortion is wrong, and I would like to afford everyone else the chance to make that same decision.