Sebelius to be picked for Health and Human Services position

[JohnnieBallgame]

Well said ShockerPrez!

I have served in the military, and am anti-abortion. There is no moral equivilancy! Soldiers hate war, but understand that freedom is not free, and they are willing to pay the costs for all of us. Not just those who vote the same way. I have personally never been around a group of soldiers, who did not absolutely love babies and children. We believed our service was our gift to them, not unlike the service of our parents and grandparents were gifts to us!

[1979Shocker]

As for your assertion that anyone professing to be “pro-life” is a hypocrite or somehow inconsistent because they may be in favor of the use of military force that will ultimately result in a loss of life – that, frankly, is quite a stretch.

I should have phrased that a little differently. I should have said anyone professing to be a Christian shouldn't have two separate beliefs, one where they suppose the life of the unborn and one where the support any war where humans end up being killed.

Someone once said you should "love your enemies". That's why Christians should only support life. You can't kill someone you love.

Of course, if a person's not a Christian, then all bets are off.

[Maggie]

As for your assertion that anyone professing to be “pro-life” is a hypocrite or somehow inconsistent because they may be in favor of the use of military force that will ultimately result in a loss of life – that, frankly, is quite a stretch.

I should have phrased that a little differently. I should have said anyone professing to be a Christian shouldn't have two separate beliefs, one where they suppose the life of the unborn and one where the support any war where humans end up being killed.

Someone once said you should "love your enemies". That's why Christians should only support life. You can't kill someone you love.

Of course, if a person's not a Christian, then all bets are off.

I still think you are strangely oversimplifying a complex issue by basing your conclusion on a disproportionate point of view.

A Christian does not have to be a pacifist nor do I know any Christian that would support any and all military action without qualification. As JohnnieBallgame wrote, there is no general moral equivalency between lives lost in a war and the voluntary termination of a pregnancy which results in the death of an unborn child.

In the end, unless you take each position to its absolute extreme (which is absurd in the real world) I don’t see any inconsistency.

[1979Shocker]

In the end, unless you take each position to its absolute extreme (which is absurd in the real world) I don’t see any inconsistency.

To us puny humans, it IS absurd, but to a Creator God, who made the rules to follow (the cornerstone being the 10 Commandments), it's perfectly logical. But who tries to keep the commandments today anyway? So, it really doesn't matter.

I should say, they like to try to keep 9 of the commandments, but not the 4th, which happens to be the test command. When I say "they", I mean those that profess to be Christian, but really aren't.

[Maggie]

In the end, unless you take each position to its absolute extreme (which is absurd in the real world) I don’t see any inconsistency.

To us puny humans, it IS absurd, but to a Creator God, who made the rules to follow (the cornerstone being the 10 Commandments), it's perfectly logical. But who tries to keep the commandments today anyway? So, it really doesn't matter.

I should say, they like to try to keep 9 of the commandments, but not the 4th, which happens to be the test command. When I say "they", I mean those that profess to be Christian, but really aren't.

Now I really don’t understand where you are coming from…and I am legitimately curious. I am, obviously, a “puny human” -- so from one “puny human” to another: Please explain.

P.S. I was not trying to demean or disparage your point of view.

[SubGod22]

Killing in war to protect and defend a people isn't murder. Even the Creator differentiates as He led many into battle.

[1979Shocker]

In the end, unless you take each position to its absolute extreme (which is absurd in the real world) I don’t see any inconsistency.

To us puny humans, it IS absurd, but to a Creator God, who made the rules to follow (the cornerstone being the 10 Commandments), it's perfectly logical. But who tries to keep the commandments today anyway? So, it really doesn't matter.

I should say, they like to try to keep 9 of the commandments, but not the 4th, which happens to be the test command. When I say "they", I mean those that profess to be Christian, but really aren't.

Now I really don’t understand where you are coming from…and I am legitimately curious. I am, obviously, a “puny human” -- so from one “puny human” to another: Please explain.

P.S. I was not trying to demean or disparage your point of view.

I'm basically saying (and maybe a lot of people don't believe this way) that any Christian should be a pacifist when it comes to wars. They should be the type of person that doesn't cause conflict, but runs away from it, who turns the other cheek, who returns good for evil, etc. This "Way of Life" should all be based on the 10 Commandments. They shouldn't be involved in this world's affairs which are based on man's ways and ideas and not God's ways.

[1979Shocker]

Killing in war to protect and defend a people isn't murder. Even the Creator differentiates as He led many into battle.

This might be true for those who aren't Christians, but Jesus made it pretty clear that close who follow him are to love their enemies. So like I said, it would be pretty hard to kill someone you love.

I'm just glad I'm no longer in the military and don't have to make these tough decisions.

[ABC]

I am a Chrsitian and I would gladly put a bullet in the head of a maniac or terrorist about to blow up a school.

Frankly someone who would is really causing the deaths of all of those in the elementary school.

Oh, and I'm pro life too.

[Maggie]

In the end, unless you take each position to its absolute extreme (which is absurd in the real world) I don’t see any inconsistency.

To us puny humans, it IS absurd, but to a Creator God, who made the rules to follow (the cornerstone being the 10 Commandments), it's perfectly logical. But who tries to keep the commandments today anyway? So, it really doesn't matter.

I should say, they like to try to keep 9 of the commandments, but not the 4th, which happens to be the test command. When I say "they", I mean those that profess to be Christian, but really aren't.

Now I really don’t understand where you are coming from…and I am legitimately curious. I am, obviously, a “puny human” -- so from one “puny human” to another: Please explain.

P.S. I was not trying to demean or disparage your point of view.

I'm basically saying (and maybe a lot of people don't believe this way) that any Christian should be a pacifist when it comes to wars. They should be the type of person that doesn't cause conflict, but runs away from it, who turns the other cheek, who returns good for evil, etc. This "Way of Life" should all be based on the 10 Commandments. They shouldn't be involved in this world's affairs which are based on man's ways and ideas and not God's ways.

Okay. Obviously, I don’t agree with your point of view. However, I still consider myself a good Christian.

[BostonWu]

Killing in war to protect and defend a people isn't murder. Even the Creator differentiates as He led many into battle.

This might be true for those who aren't Christians, but Jesus made it pretty clear that close who follow him are to love their enemies. So like I said, it would be pretty hard to kill someone you love.

I'm just glad I'm no longer in the military and don't have to make these tough decisions.

I've got news for you. The islamo fascists want to exterminate Christians and all other infidels. With that being the case should you just turn the other cheek?

[RoyalShock]

Christianity is a personal relationship with Christ. The teachings of Christ and the rest of the New Testament, in my view, are directed at us on a personal, individual level. It is fairly quiet in regard to governments, other than commanding us to submit (open to interpretation) and that our leaders are there because God allows them to be (again, open to interpretation).

The Old Testament has plenty of examples of wars where Israelites took out entire cities at God's command and according to his will. Remember, the commandment is "thou shalt not murder", not "thou shalt not kill." God himself justified Israel's actions.

One could conclude that the teachings of Christ and the absence of aggression in the NT are an indication that as Christians there is no longer any impetus for killing. And, that if loving our enemies and turning the other cheek means succumbing to death at their hands, so be it. Just look at several of the apostles who died for their faith. They did not fight back. As for what I think governments should do, I'm torn.

I do believe that our country is not likely to ever be run by people who don't believe in some form of "just war" theory, at a minimum (Based on the Iraq situation, Bush and Cheney were war-mongers, in my opinion). In my personal life I will do my best to be a pacifist in the NT tradition. That's not to say that if put in a situation where the lives of my loved ones were threatened I wouldn't betray that philosophy and commit a sin of which requires forgiveness.

Just my $.02.

[Maggie]

Boy did this thread get a bit off track.

[ShockerGorilla]

Boy did this thread get a bit off track.

Is Sebelius starting a holy war in the Middle East?

[1979Shocker]

Killing in war to protect and defend a people isn't murder. Even the Creator differentiates as He led many into battle.

This might be true for those who aren't Christians, but Jesus made it pretty clear that close who follow him are to love their enemies. So like I said, it would be pretty hard to kill someone you love.

I'm just glad I'm no longer in the military and don't have to make these tough decisions.

I've got news for you. The islamo fascists want to exterminate Christians and all other infidels. With that being the case should you just turn the other cheek?

I guess you should let God judge at the Judgment. He'll decide who has done good or evil and who has kept his Commandments. I wouldn't want to try to rationalize that it was okay to kill someone because they were killing Christians.

It was even said to put away the sword because "if you live by the sword, you will die by the sword."