HBC Machinist Vote to Strike

[t7017s]

I can only read so much about this... In watching the news last night, I found it interesting that with news cameras pointed at them, the "union" employees yelled at, and made actions that could be borderline assault to non union employees. Some people are members of the union, some aren't. If they aren't part of the union, just leave them alone. Why do union members feel the need to bully people those not a part of the union? If they want to strike because they feel a 4% raise isn't good enough (4% is probably higher than the average job in Wichita), then strike, but leave everyone else alone... My 3 year old daughter acts with more civility and common sense than the idiots I saw on TV last night.

They interviewed some red neck with half his teeth talking about how he's doing this for the American worker and everyone should be thanking him. Seriously, give me a break...You didn't graduate college (maybe not high school) but hourly probably make more than double what the average adult in Wichita makes.

Thats what I was saying above.

[SpanglerFan316]

The television crews probably try to get the most "newsworthy" shots they can. I doubt that "toothless Joe" represents the majority of union workers. Perhaps I'm wrong? I don't wish to join a union but one tool available to unions is the right to strike; if they use this wisely, their members will benefit.

[RoyalShock]

When Teamsters in Hutch went on strike in the 90s I had a cousin who was union and a friend who was the CEO of the company my cousin worked for.

My cousin, who I always thought was a level-headed guy, totally bought the crap that Teamsters leadership sold the rank-and-file.

I spoke with the CEO during this time (we were both on a committee to look into starting a day care facility at our church. He is one the most humble and likable people I've ever met.) I could tell he genuinely cared for his employees and was upset that they were being so poorly led and misinformed.

My cousin actually believed (he didn't witness it) that the CEO tried to run over picketers as he left the facility in his car one day.

The moral of the story is that you'd be surprised what some people will believe and do when they throw their loyalty behind what is probably corrupt leadership. For all the propaganda union leaders spread about corporate execs only looking out for themselves, the same can often be said for the union leaders.

[Ixiah]

I agree that Ford and GM produce crap junk cars but that is not what ultimately brought them to their knees. More than anything it’s the millions of retirees on pension.

GM is at an extreme disadvantage compared to its competitors. It provides over 4.8 billion/year in healthcare to its employees while its competitors come from countries which have nationalized healthcare and thus pay nearly nothing.

[RoyalShock]

Wouldn't those corporations be paying exhorbitant tax rates to fund that healthcare system?

[martymoose]

Thats what I was saying above.

I figured someone else would had to have said that...I didn't read the whole thread, too much arguing about the history of unions, which I didn't care to read.

[rrshock]

I agree that Ford and GM produce crap junk cars but that is not what ultimately brought them to their knees. More than anything it’s the millions of retirees on pension.

I like this guy’s idea: “One way to solve the problems of GM or Ford would be to take them into bankruptcy, thus getting away from existing pension promises, and then selling off the good parts to a private equity firm which would be able to rebuild these firms as sound businesses; that once the flawed pension plan is out of the way, GM or Ford are actually viable firms.”

http://ajayshahblog.blogspot.com/2006/08/why-firms-should-not-run-db-pension.html

Of course if they actually did this could you imagine the backlash from the retirees? You would have mass riots all throughout Michigan.

Are you serious? File bankruptcy so that you can leave all your retirees high and dry? WTH?

[BostonWu]

I agree that Ford and GM produce crap junk cars but that is not what ultimately brought them to their knees. More than anything it’s the millions of retirees on pension.

I like this guy’s idea: “One way to solve the problems of GM or Ford would be to take them into bankruptcy, thus getting away from existing pension promises, and then selling off the good parts to a private equity firm which would be able to rebuild these firms as sound businesses; that once the flawed pension plan is out of the way, GM or Ford are actually viable firms.”

http://ajayshahblog.blogspot.com/2006/08/why-firms-should-not-run-db-pension.html

Of course if they actually did this could you imagine the backlash from the retirees? You would have mass riots all throughout Michigan.

Are you serious? File bankruptcy so that you can leave all your retirees high and dry? WTH?

Well as it is GM and Ford are nothing more than wellfare states providing benefits with no chance to remain competitive in the auto industry. Simply put their overhead is too much to overcome. And I suspect generations of union negotiations have had a lot to do with that.

My current employer (like most these days) have cut off postretirement pensions and benefits. It's the only way to survive in today's business world.

[rrshock]

I agree that Ford and GM produce crap junk cars but that is not what ultimately brought them to their knees. More than anything it’s the millions of retirees on pension.

I like this guy’s idea: “One way to solve the problems of GM or Ford would be to take them into bankruptcy, thus getting away from existing pension promises, and then selling off the good parts to a private equity firm which would be able to rebuild these firms as sound businesses; that once the flawed pension plan is out of the way, GM or Ford are actually viable firms.”

http://ajayshahblog.blogspot.com/2006/08/why-firms-should-not-run-db-pension.html

Of course if they actually did this could you imagine the backlash from the retirees? You would have mass riots all throughout Michigan.

Are you serious? File bankruptcy so that you can leave all your retirees high and dry? WTH?

Well as it is GM and Ford are nothing more than wellfare states providing benefits with no chance to remain competitive in the auto industry. Simply put their overhead is too much to overcome. And I suspect generations of union negotiations have had a lot to do with that.

My current employer (like most these days) have cut off postretirement pensions and benefits. It's the only way to survive in today's business world.

Or is it more like the only way to keep the upper management and shareholders getting more money? They were the ones that agreed to those contracts, they should be held liable for it. They have made alot of poor decisions over the years, especially the past 10 to 20, at Ford and GM and they are paying for it now. They will never match back up to Toyota. Toyota got into their bread and butter with the trucks and now have completely gone past them. It doesn't matter what they do with the companies, they'll always take a back seat to the foreign auto manufacturers.

[BostonWu]

I do agree GM/Ford management is ultimately to blame for colossal mistakes throughout the years - In some cases they gave too easy to union demands which broke them in the end.

[SpanglerFan316]

I do agree GM/Ford management is ultimately to blame for colossal mistakes throughout the years - In some cases they gave too easy to union demands which broke them in the end.

I agree. If you pay CEOs, etc. big bucks, you expect them to do a good job. This often doesn't happen.