Patricia, strongest hurricane ever recorded, menaces Mexico

[MoValley John]

Yes on water vapor, but...

http://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/cl...t-the-co2.html

I've already read that. What is interesting, as they speak of how the amount of water vapor is a result of temperature itse, they kind also say that water vapor causes temperature regulation. Water vapor helps temper both global warming and global cooling. Also, all greenhouse gases amount to about 1% of the atmosphere. While a little of anything can go a long way, the actual real buildup of these gasses is minimal. Mars, on the other hand, has an atmosphere mostly made up of CO2, yet temperature changes on Earth, Mars and even Venus, are very similar, based primarily on the activity of the Sun.

[MoValley John]

440px-Atmosphere_gas_proportions.svg.jpg

[SB Shock]

I'm curious, how many have taken time to read and try to study both sides on this.

I study all the time since I have a interest in meteorology. I have actually downloaded some of the data sets (and all their corrections). I have even did some El Niño analysis for wichita (it not that hugely compelling). I have looked at some of the climate models and it looks like they have stability issue with them. How many times have we supposebly crossed the point of return? Problem is this is issue no longer a scientific issue but political one - so there are no longer rational discussion. And now the science has been tainted by outright fraud, lies, name calling and even threats. If your data is compelling, you don't need to do this.

Take your key west - the water has been rising how many hundreds of years now? Ocean rise is just not a recent event. But the bigger issue that is affecting key west is the tides are/have changed and are more pronounced and they don't know why? Is it from climate variabilty? Or this just a normal variation in tides? Nobody know for sure. What odd is these issue seem to be affecting Florida more than other coastal areas in the Gulf.

[shocka khan]

I live in the Heights in Houston, which was 45 feet above sea level whe I bought. It is now slightly over 40 feet (IIRC) and in another 30 or so years it will be about 35 feet. The analogy about buying at the top of the hill is moot, as I was at the top, but could be exposed to flooding in a hurricane like this one.

This hurricane will kill thousands and possibly tens of thousands as it comes shore and then gets ripped up over the Sierra Madres, dumping huge amounts of rain in an area populated by subsistence farmers who live in shacks.

**update**

Looks like they dodged a bullet as the storm came ashore in a relatively uninhabited area (personally I would have been amused if it had hit Lazlo Cardenas, the port where all the meth precursors are shipped from China), but the flooding and mudslides in the mountains will still kill a lot of people.

[MoValley John]

I live in the Heights in Houston, which was 45 feet above sea level whe I bought. It is now slightly over 40 feet (IIRC) and in another 30 or so years it will be about 35 feet. The analogy about buying at the top of the hill is moot, as I was at the top, but could be exposed to flooding in a hurricane like this one.

This hurricane will kill thousands and possibly tens of thousands as it comes shore and then gets ripped up over the Sierra Madres, dumping huge amounts of rain in an area populated by subsistence farmers who live in shacks.

**update**

Looks like they dodged a bullet as the storm came ashore in a relatively uninhabited area (personally I would have been amused if it had hit Lazlo Cardenas, the port where all the meth precursors are shipped from China), but the flooding and mudslides in the mountains will still kill a lot of people.

I live in Ralston, which is approximately 981 feet above the sea. It used to be at the bottom of the sea. The school kids go on an annual field trip to an old limestone quarry, where they dig for fossilized shark teeth.

[Kung Wu]

I live in Ralston, which is approximately 981 feet above the sea. It used to be at the bottom of the sea. The school kids go on an annual field trip to an old limestone quarry, where they dig for fossilized shark teeth.

Dang dinosaurs and their CO2 emissions.

[tropicalshox]

The back and forth on global warming can go on for pages since there has been a huge effort to sway public opinion. Perhaps a reason it has become political.

http://graphics.latimes.com/exxon-arctic/

That is just one article of two recent independent investigations.

I really don't want to take time to respond to every thing thrown out. If you are interested in what science says about most things you will hear against global warming, I suggest this site. You will find answers to some of the concerns expressed on this thread.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

[tropicalshox]

One other thing, getting away from global warming. Fossil fuel is a dirty fuel. I believe most of us can agree fossil fuels are bad for us in harming our health, polluting our waters, polluting our air. Tax what is bad for us, eg cigarettes, alcohol, fossil fuels. Take that money to reduce taxes on things good for us eg. jobs, personal income, corporate income, education.

[wufan]

Interestingly, when excess CO2 is produced, the hole in the O-Zone (remember that?) goes away. That decreases the warming from the hole. Plants grow larger and more rapidly. Larger plants ingest more CO2 as a balancing mechanism. Oceans rise. Rising oceans suck CO2 out of the atmosphere. It all balances out. What happens if we tip the scales too far? The oceans rise more and people move inland. Once arid climates become fertile. Population growth slows, slowing CO2.

During the Jurassic period there was 5 TIMES the amount of CO2. If we continue on the hockey stick heat trajectory of the most liberal climate models for the next 100 years, we won't reach the coldest era of the dinosaurs.

[shocka khan]

I try to deliberately stay away from what the causes are, but it is exceedingly obvious to anyone who has lived on or near the ocean that the sea levels have been rising. It may be debatable to some that this isn't happening, but I can tell you that it is absolutely the case in Houston, which is about 900+ feet closer to sea level than Ralston.

This year was the warmest summer on record according to what I've read. I will believe that the temperatures are not rising anymore whe I start reading articles that support this trend of increasing heat has subsided.

[wufan]

I try to deliberately stay away from what the causes are, but it is exceedingly obvious to anyone who has lived on or near the ocean that the sea levels have been rising. It may be debatable to some that this isn't happening, but I can tell you that it is absolutely the case in Houston, which is about 900+ feet closer to sea level than Ralston.

This year was the warmest summer on record according to what I've read. I will believe that the temperatures are not rising anymore whe I start reading articles that support this trend of increasing heat has subsided.

Has anyone said that's it's NOT getting hotter in this thread?

[SB Shock]

I try to deliberately stay away from what the causes are, but it is exceedingly obvious to anyone who has lived on or near the ocean that the sea levels have been rising. It may be debatable to some that this isn't happening, but I can tell you that it is absolutely the case in Houston, which is about 900+ feet closer to sea level than Ralston.

This year was the warmest summer on record according to what I've read. I will believe that the temperatures are not rising anymore whe I start reading articles that support this trend of increasing heat has subsided.

Since we in in a interglacial period - no duh. Sea levels rises started ~20,000 years ago at the end of the glacial period. And for the first 10,000 years the rise was HUGE!

[rayc]

I try to deliberately stay away from what the causes are, but it is exceedingly obvious to anyone who has lived on or near the ocean that the sea levels have been rising. It may be debatable to some that this isn't happening, but I can tell you that it is absolutely the case in Houston, which is about 900+ feet closer to sea level than Ralston.

This year was the warmest summer on record according to what I've read. I will believe that the temperatures are not rising anymore whe I start reading articles that support this trend of increasing heat has subsided.

Houston's elevation and sea level have been getting closer and closer for many years now. Of course the primary culprit is land subsidence not rising sea levels. But then you already knew that, didn't you.

[MoValley John]

Houston's elevation and sea level have been getting closer and closer for many years now. Of course the primary culprit is land subsidence not rising sea levels. But then you already knew that, didn't you.

So, if what you are saying is correct, land elevations change just like sea levels? So maybe we live on an everchangung planet that gets hot and cold? Land masses move? Oceans rise and fall?

Does anyone no where sea level was back when there was this land mass named Pangaea?

[GoShox]

Hottest summers ever???

This has been the most mild summer in the past 10 years in OK. Sounds like if this continues I may have some oceanfront property soon with perfect weather!!! I knew OK wasn't so bad!