Decrim Petition

[DanielBryan]

http://www.kansas.com/2014/08/08/3587634/marijuana-decriminalization-petition.html#storylink=omni_popular

[wu_shizzle]

If only the potheads were more motivated.

[SB Shock]

Both foster parents of a 10-month-old girl who died after being left in a hot car were smoking marijuana while she remained in the vehicle outside, a Wichita police affidavit says.

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2014/08/04/358...#storylink=cpy[/quote

[SHOCKvalue]

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2014/08/04/358...#storylink=cpy[/quote

Sometimes you make some hilariously asinine arguments. Alcohol consumption has killed more people in the history of the human race by orders of magnitude as compared to pot use, but it is still legal.

I really don't have a dog in the fight as I have never used pot (nor run with such crowds) and I don't drink to excess, but my libertarian side tells me that the concept that alcohol is fine while pot is bad is an obtuse rationalization.

[The Mad Hatter]

Sometimes you make some hilariously asinine arguments. Alcohol consumption has killed more people in the history of the human race by orders of magnitude as compared to pot use, but it is still legal.

I really don't have a dog in the fight as I have never used pot (nor run with such crowds) and I don't drink to excess, but my libertarian side tells me that the concept that alcohol is fine while pot is bad is an obtuse rationalization.

There are two problems with your argument:

1. You are assuming that because something is legal, it is good that it is legal. What if I were to argue that the Nazis killing Roma was wrong. Would the response that the Nazis killed even more Jews be a valid response to my claim?

2. The fact that the legal drug has killed significantly more people than the illegal drug tends to be a warning of the problems of drug legalization, not a reason for it.

The reality is that both alcohol and marijuana provide both significant risk to society and potential benefits. Furthermore, legalization comes with risk of escalation of problems (as we see with alcohol), but criminalization also provides significant problems (as we see with prohibition attempts for alcohol and prison overcrowding now).

I think it is too simplistic to make sweeping generalizations about drug legalization being either good or bad because there are strong enough objections on both sides that nuance and sophisticated policy-making are needed, both of which I fear are in short supply in our current political climate.

[AndShock]

Regarding the OP's link in this topic, it does seem a little bit fishy to me that they came up 47 signatures short. Rejecting signatures based on mismatched handwriting seems a bit ridiculous, not to mention they weren't even competent enough to submit the correct number of signatures the first time around. I don't really care which way this issue falls, but you might as well let the public vote on it. I'm guessing decriminalization is going to be voted down big time anyways, let the pot advocates see that instead of denying their petition based on technicalities and questionable counting practices.

[SB Shock]

Sometimes you make some hilariously asinine arguments. Alcohol consumption has killed more people in the history of the human race by orders of magnitude as compared to pot use, but it is still legal.

Why the strawman argument? I just posted a link to a relevant storyline that happened in the city. If anything you just made the most asinine argument. BTW drunks always say they only had 1 beer, you always multiply what they say by 5

[Play Angry]

Whether it happens now or another 10 years from now when more of the olds die off, this is pretty much an inevitable thing. Holdouts will fight it tooth and nail though like they have with gay marriage over the last dozen years.

The moral high horse and fearmongering aspects are always sorta offputting IMO but to each his own.

[MoValley John]

Marijuana has been decriminalized in Nebraska for a long as I've been here. Legalization and decriminalization are two different things. From what I understand, the local police love decriminalization, but are mixed on legalization. How it works now, posessing quantities for personal use are tickets, much like speeding. Larger quantities are a different animal. The cops I know simply have the person dump their pot out rather than writing the ticket. If the person is a dick, then the pot is siezed and a ticket is written. Works well for everyone.

I would support legalization if there was some honest discussion on how to control and regulate it. What is going on in Colorado is a joke.

[Play Angry]

Marijuana has been decriminalized in Nebraska for a long as I've been here. Legalization and decriminalization are two different things. From what I understand, the local police love decriminalization, but are mixed on legalization. How it works now, posessing quantities for personal use are tickets, much like speeding. Larger quantities are a different animal. The cops I know simply have the person dump their pot out rather than writing the ticket. If the person is a dick, then the pot is siezed and a ticket is written. Works well for everyone.

I would support legalization if there was some honest discussion on how to control and regulate it. What is going on in Colorado is a joke.

Pretty much agreed, although the need to control/regulate goes more to revenue than anything else IMO. Naturally a better, safer product with uniform standards and uniform tax treatment is in everyone's best interest. That will take some time but it will happen- recall how long it took the government to get a handle on alcohol and tobacco in the U.S. This is already on a much faster track.

There are reasonable arguments against legalization (few, if any, against decriminalization IMO), but far too many rely on their takeaways during the Bush I era infomercials as being even quasi-factual regarding the effects of use. I.e., the forecasts of droves of automobile fatalities was a bread and butter staple of the anti-legalization/decriminalization crowd and that argument has been shot to smithereens this year as those statistics are among the lowest in over a decade so far.

FWIW I don't smoke, so let's not go there in any responses (not really aimed at MVJ, just in general).

[WuDrWu]

I would be passively supportive of the decriminalization of weed as long as anyone giving, selling or in any way providing it to underage kids was put in jail for life.

The number of people that start smoking at 25 is tiny. Likewise, if you don't drink until your mid 20s, you're likely not to, and having a problem with alcohol is highly unlikely. I don't know the weed statistics, but again, if you don't start as a kid, you've got to be a likely candidate never to use.

I read an article recently (can't remember where) about how the left has done a brilliant job of creating new terms or words that have been accepted or soften the term. One of those is medical marijuana.

I'll admit my bias. I've never done drugs and never will. I have yet to meet a person that's better off smoking weed. It's a huge menace amongst minorities. HUGE. If you don't think it is, then you don't have first hand observations.

The argument that it's not as bad for your lungs as smoking or that it's safer than drinking....that kind of chaps my ass. It's the left's argument for everything these days. Judge by the least common denominator, absolve responsibility, then tell everyone how special they are.

I also struggle because of my continued lean towards libertarianism. I do want the government out of the way. I just know that they won't here. In 25 years they'll be giving dope out in soup kitchens with WIC cards.

[MoValley John]

Pretty much agreed, although the need to control/regulate goes more to revenue than anything else IMO. Naturally a better, safer product with uniform standards and uniform tax treatment is in everyone's best interest. That will take some time but it will happen- recall how long it took the government to get a handle on alcohol and tobacco in the U.S. This is already on a much faster track.

There are reasonable arguments against legalization (few, if any, against decriminalization IMO), but far too many rely on their takeaways during the Bush I era infomercials as being even quasi-factual regarding the effects of use. I.e., the forecasts of droves of automobile fatalities was a bread and butter staple of the anti-legalization/decriminalization crowd and that argument has been shot to smithereens this year as those statistics are among the lowest in over a decade so far.

FWIW I don't smoke, so let's not go there in any responses (not really aimed at MVJ, just in general).

As far as why the accident numbers didn't spike in Colorado is simply because there weren't a rash of people that didn't smoke pot suddenly buying bongs when it was legalized. The pot smokers were already doing it. It is interesting, though, that accidents spiked as soon as medical Marijuana passed. That is when those that otherwise wouldn't smoke, went out and got a prescription.

As for the dangers of smoking and driving, it is every bit as dangerous as drinking and driving. Not a popular notion, but true.

[shockmonster]

Write this down. This movement that is going now toward legallizing drugs in America won't end well. Decriminalization isn't the the true goal (of those who are bankrolling this movement), legalization is. God help us when 10-12 year olds get their hands on drugs like they currently do with alcohol.

[Play Angry]

Middle school kids already smoke plenty of pot.

I don't think any credible source is advocating for broad drug legalization. It's limited to marijuana.

[Play Angry]

As far as why the accident numbers didn't spike in Colorado is simply because there weren't a rash of people that didn't smoke pot suddenly buying bongs when it was legalized. The pot smokers were already doing it. It is interesting, though, that accidents spiked as soon as medical Marijuana passed. That is when those that otherwise wouldn't smoke, went out and got a prescription.

This is an interesting take, but my point was really that the pre-referendum fearmongering was proven completely wrong.

As for the dangers of smoking and driving, it is every bit as dangerous as drinking and driving. Not a popular notion, but true.

Questionable assertion but really I don't think anyone advocates driving under any sort of influence as a justification for legalization.