KC Chiefs to Kansas?

[Veritas]

He is just wrong on the State picking up the slack and there is absolutely no evidence it could affect the State's credit rating. These are revenue bonds, not General obligation bonds.

As to benefits not yielding what is promised - I agree with that, in most cases. Basically, this will not create economic growth in the KC-area - it is likely to be a wash. Kansas gains, Missouri loses; however, the sales tax in Jackson County will go down 3/8 of a cent.

Having a team(s) and stadiums move across a state line in the same metro area has only happened one other time with the two NYC football teams. And a big difference there is the Giants were playing in Yankee Stadium and the Jets were playing in Shea Stadium.

There isn't a single one of the stadium economic studies that addressed a situation like this. If the Chiefs moved to San Antonio, KC does lose a bit and it wouldn't really impact much in the San Antonio area.

As to cannibalizing existing sales tax revenue - possibly some. It depends upon how big they draw the district. Obviously, Kansas isn't seeing any sales tax revenue from Chiefs and Royals tickets sales, parking or concessions. So clearly, that is all new revenue. And there will be new restaurants, hotels etc that are new revenue.

If existing businesses in the Legends area are also in the district, then only the increase in sales should be included. There are clear ways to prevent cannibilization/shifiting money.

Obviously before NASCAR and the Legends, there wasn't any sales tax being generated in that area. The NASCAR STAR bonds will be paid of 4,5 years early. I believe the STAR Bonds for the Sporting KC Park ahve already been paid off. Clearly both entities brought in commerce that wouldn't have otherwise happened.

How does it positively impact the Wichita metro area? Will take approx 30 years to pay off the debt from tax revenue from within the stadium and surrounding retail development, as well as future revenue from sports gambling and lottery revenue. What kind of decrease will we see in Kansas sports gambling once it is allowed in missouri?

What exactly does Wichita expect to gain from the potential move? Cutting off about 30min drive from the rare game attended? Pride in the KCks Chiefs/Royals?

Isn’t there a better use of money from Sports gambling and lottery revenue that directly impacts Wichita metro in a positive manner?
The KCks/Joco metro couldn’t care less about Wichita.
Seems Wichita needs to focus on schools, and other needs rather than losing any money from lottery and sports gambling revenue in helping pay for a Chiefs and Royals stadium.

[shock]

IMO, adding a domed stadium to Kansas’ limited options for entertainment venues will be a huge plus. Final fours, super bowls, NBA games, Bowl games… the list goes on. I would think the economic butterfly effect would be substantial.

Any rep from western Kansas is probably a broncos fan any way.

[WuShock16]

IMO, adding a domed stadium to Kansas’ limited options for entertainment venues will be a huge plus. Final fours, super bowls, NBA games, Bowl games… the list goes on. I would think the economic butterfly effect would be substantial.

Any rep from western Kansas is probably a broncos fan any way.

Not necessarily. I’ve known lots of westerns who are Chiefs fans…and not just recent fans.

Mitch Holthus calls Hays “Scandinavia.” He says that you’ll go down one street and see a bunch of Chiefs fans, and then you’ll go down the next street and see a bunch of Broncos flags.

[Kung Wu]

Bond-holders are on the hook, not the taxpayers. I supposed one way to look at it is all of the sales tax currently being generated in Missouri for the Chiefs and the Royals will now be in Kansas. The Chiefs and Royals and their owners will be buying some of the bonds. There is no reason to think attendance or activity goes down. In fact it might go up because there is nothing near the current stadiums that generate any sales tax.

I think a reasonable concern is not to shift retails sales from one place in Kansas to another. These projects should generate a lot of new sales tax.

AND Kansas will receive an increase in income tax revenue. As every player, staff, broadcasters, will pay income tax in Kansas for the games that are played here. The Chiefs estimated their players, staff etc, plus visiting players generate about $28 million in income tax revenue in Missouri. I do not know what the Royals generate.

If the HQs and practice facilities also move to Kansas, that would be even more income tax revenue.

In addition, these aren't risky startups or middling franchises. They are extremely established and historical. Kansas should build its tourism portfolio any way it can, and this would be the crown jewel of that effort.

If its even possible for this to happen, all Kansans should be on board, IMO.

[SubGod22]

How does it positively impact the Wichita metro area? Will take approx 30 years to pay off the debt from tax revenue from within the stadium and surrounding retail development, as well as future revenue from sports gambling and lottery revenue. What kind of decrease will we see in Kansas sports gambling once it is allowed in missouri?

What exactly does Wichita expect to gain from the potential move? Cutting off about 30min drive from the rare game attended? Pride in the KCks Chiefs/Royals?

Isn’t there a better use of money from Sports gambling and lottery revenue that directly impacts Wichita metro in a positive manner?
The KCks/Joco metro couldn’t care less about Wichita.
Seems Wichita needs to focus on schools, and other needs rather than losing any money from lottery and sports gambling revenue in helping pay for a Chiefs and Royals stadium.

Not everything has to have a direct impact back to Wichita.

Sports gambling funds have always been earmarked for professional sports so they're not diverting money.

Wichita has been receiving wins and STAR bonds to help the area as well.

Schools aren't underfunded but they're often run by idiots who waste money and have more administrative staff and high salaries than they need.

This would be a win for Kansas as a whole. Like it or not, having professional sports teams within your state definitely helps alter the perspective a bit and will bring in more tourism dollars than without. Yes, in this particular case most of that extra money is being spent up in NE Kansas. But it's also extra tax revenue for the state as well. Who knows what the state will do with that increased revenue source, hopefully lower taxes again down the road.

It's also possible that some people traveling to KC for events at the new stadiums could travel through and spend money in the Wichita metro area. Or, if they're making more than a day trip or something could decide to spend some time in Wichita on their way to or from KC.

And western KS politicians were heavily in favor of this as well as they believe in the boost it will provide to the state overall.

[SubGod22]

In addition, these aren't risky startups or middling franchises. They are extremely established and historical. Kansas should build its tourism portfolio any way it can, and this would be the crown jewel of that effort.

If its even possible for this to happen, all Kansans should be on board, IMO.

Agreed.

I do think Wichita could do more to help build its tourism and it will in some degree with the improvements coming to Exploration Place. The zoo is still one of the best in the country and always improving. The new aquarium and butterfly sanctuary that will be built in Park City could offer a good boost to the area as well. We'll see if the lagoon/beach in Derby does well.

If Wichita can ever get out of its own way and develop the river and bring a connectivity from the Ballpark District to the Arena District and to Old Town you could have something going.

Wild West World has people pretty jaded, but I really would love to see someone legit build an amusement/theme park in the area as well. A lot of people will travel to try new parks/rides/coasters and it would offer a lot of entertainment value for the locals.

I love the Flint Hills and some of the other natural areas of KS, but they don't attract people quite like mountains and beaches. So finding other ways to bring people in is important.

Growing the state is also important and we're getting fairly close to getting over the 3M mark as a state. As areas become more attractive and bring in more business that's going to help. The Integra facility once it gets up and running is expected to bring in out of state people to work there as there will simply be too many jobs available for the local area to fill. The growing cybersecurity presence is always a good thing and is likely to bring in more jobs and potentially businesses in the same market. The Bio-Med campus is going to help bring business and people into Wichita and the core. Those are all reasons to also work on adding and growing the options for entertainment and such in the area.

Got a little sidetracked from the Chiefs/Royals talk but there are a lot of things to be excited and/or optimistic about. The Chiefs/Royals are still no guarantee and Missouri at some point will try to put forth something to keep them. I've heard that the Hunt family has purchased a lot of land near Legends but I don't know if that's true or not.

[Veritas]

Agree with the Riverfront Legacy development. The area is really poised for something special if the leaders can simply make a decision to move forward.

I was recently at the San Diego zoo which is very nice. I didn’t think the display of animals is as good as the SCZoo but they have a tremendous amount of trees, shade, and retail/kiosks with food.
it was busy but not crowded. Per acres, I believe the SCZoo is larger.

SCZoo might want to invest in trees / shade and nice walkways with a lot of park benches (similar to the Columbus Ohio zoo which is worth a visit. Jack Hanna used to be the Zoo Director) I thought the San Diego zoo’s directional signage needs to improve. Twisting trails with some small hills.

SCZoo is great!

[Veritas]

Not everything has to have a direct impact back to Wichita.

Sports gambling funds have always been earmarked for professional sports so they're not diverting money.

Wichita has been receiving wins and STAR bonds to help the area as well.

Schools aren't underfunded but they're often run by idiots who waste money and have more administrative staff and high salaries than they need.

This would be a win for Kansas as a whole. Like it or not, having professional sports teams within your state definitely helps alter the perspective a bit and will bring in more tourism dollars than without. Yes, in this particular case most of that extra money is being spent up in NE Kansas. But it's also extra tax revenue for the state as well. Who knows what the state will do with that increased revenue source, hopefully lower taxes again down the road.

It's also possible that some people traveling to KC for events at the new stadiums could travel through and spend money in the Wichita metro area. Or, if they're making more than a day trip or something could decide to spend some time in Wichita on their way to or from KC.

And western KS politicians were heavily in favor of this as well as they believe in the boost it will provide to the state overall.

I simply don’t understand the Wichita support on whether the Chiefs/Royals jump the state line.

Perhaps a trade off then using Star bonds or sport gambling funds to support WSU football and a 50,000 seat state of the art football stadium. Could be used for concerts and other entertainment as well.

For me, yes… it is about Wichita. I couldn’t care less what happens with KCks or JoCo as long as Wichita metro doesn’t get stuck with paying a dime of any development. If not, then have at it.

[WstateU]

I simply don’t understand the Wichita support on whether the Chiefs/Royals jump the state line.

Perhaps a trade off then using Star bonds or sport gambling funds to support WSU football and a 50,000 seat state of the art football stadium. Could be used for concerts and other entertainment as well.

For me, yes… it is about Wichita. I couldn’t care less what happens with KCks or JoCo as long as Wichita metro doesn’t get stuck with paying a dime of any development. If not, then have at it.

Same boat here. I’ve always been a ‘proponent’ of bringing back WSU football. Build a stadium first.

[SubGod22]

I simply don’t understand the Wichita support on whether the Chiefs/Royals jump the state line.

Perhaps a trade off then using Star bonds or sport gambling funds to support WSU football and a 50,000 seat state of the art football stadium. Could be used for concerts and other entertainment as well.

For me, yes… it is about Wichita. I couldn’t care less what happens with KCks or JoCo as long as Wichita metro doesn’t get stuck with paying a dime of any development. If not, then have at it.

I understand caring more about the Wichita metro, but the State is supposed to look at the entire state as a whole when it takes on projects. This is a win for Kansas if it happens. It might be a bigger win for the NE than for Wichita, but it would still be a big win.

Metro area STAR Bonds include

Field Station: Dinosaur (Derby) Paid off in 5 years.

Derby Sports Zone (Derby) Should be paid off in less than 2 years (4 total)

Lagoon and Indoor Water Park (Derby) A lot of development still to do

Olympic Park (Goddard) Open for 2 years, probably paid off in the next 3.

River District (Wichita) Paid off in 5 years.

River District (Wichita) Open for 4 years, probably going to take 10 or so years.

K-96 Greenwich (Wichita) Open for 5 years, Should be paid off in the next 3.

Park City is expected to get STAR Bond issuance for their Champtown project.

I'm sure those in the KC area don't care about any of the above and they do nothing to help them up there. But they've been pretty good for out area and the State as a whole. Hell, the economic and residential growth from the K-96/Greenwich area has been tremendous.

Using STAR Bonds for WSU football would probably be more difficult to justify. The Chiefs and Royals have historic attendance and success records to build upon and large fan bases to count on. Also, building stadiums in currently undeveloped/underdeveloped areas will generate more business activity in the surrounding area by building new hotels/restaurants/shopping areas. WSU football wouldn't do all of that. People would point to poor attendance when it was dropped. (Football is far more popular now than it was then). There would be limited development around the stadium unless you're building it way off campus somewhere.

If they we to do some form of bond work, it would probably have to go through City of Wichita in the form of CID Bonds, but you still run into some of the same issues as there's not a lot around a campus stadium to generate extra revenue through an increased sales tax. There would also be the concern that students would pay the price as I'm sure the entire campus would be part of it which would increase the sales tax on everything.

I'd absolutely love to have Shocker football. It's one reason I'm excited for the college football game coming out next month as the first thing I will do is create a Wichita State football program. I'm really not sure on how large you could make a Bond District for a WSU program that would make sense. It wouldn't do much to rejuvenate or increase new businesses in the area as there isn't much available for growth.

There have also been a few STAR Bonds for western Kansas. Again, I'm sure they do nothing directly for Wichita or KC, but I'm sure those out west are fans and that they should benefit those areas and the State in the long run.

Sports of the World (Garden City) Open for 3 years and will probably be paid off in the next 3.

Heritage Project (Dodge City) Open for 7, probably paid off in 3 or 4.

Power Center (Dodge City) Open for 4, probably take another 6 or 7.

And the great thing about STAR Bonds are if you don't care about the Chiefs or Royals and don't go to games or visit the surrounding area they're in, you won't pay one penny towards the stadiums unless you maybe engage in sports gambling or something.

The reasons many in the Wichita area are excited about the possibility of the teams moving to Kansas is about State pride. I grew up a Chiefs and Royals fan. I've been to games. I never really cared that they were located in MO but always thought it would be cool if at least one of them eventually ended up in KS. I've also been annoyed by the amount of Missourians that try to gate keep the fandom and look down upon those who aren't from MO. I wouldn't look down upon those from Missouri any more than I already do just because the team(s) would be in KS, but being able to say they are in/from Kansas adds a little something. It's the cool thing about SKC, even if they have fallen apart this year.

KC is still KC as a metro regardless of state. At least that's how I and most Kansans seem to view it.

And anything that can be a boost for the state I'm good with. While I will always love when something comes to or happens in our metro area and would love to see more of it, I will be pretty damn happy anytime any place in KS gets a win as that's good for the state as a whole. If some large business decides to set up shop in Hays or Garden or Salina or Pitsburg I will be happy. I know there are some who hate all things NE KS, but a strong NE KS is good for the rest of us as well.

[Kung Wu]

I simply don’t understand the Wichita support on whether the Chiefs/Royals jump the state line.

Perhaps a trade off then using Star bonds or sport gambling funds to support WSU football and a 50,000 seat state of the art football stadium. Could be used for concerts and other entertainment as well.

For me, yes… it is about Wichita. I couldn’t care less what happens with KCks or JoCo as long as Wichita metro doesn’t get stuck with paying a dime of any development. If not, then have at it.

It's not either or, it's both! Bring the Chiefs and Royals to Kansas with STAR Bond A, and create a badass WSU football program with STAR Bond B too.

But so far, someone has only proposed STAR Bond A. So we need to discuss the merits of that ...

1) If it's in Missouri, it is guaranteed that Wichita will not benefit in any way shape or form ever.

2) If it's in Kansas, Wichita _may_ benefit some, in the form of increased very high income revenues pouring into the state. It may benefit from increased tourism in the state of Kansas. Our legislature has a say in those program's destiny. The STAR Bond is likely to be a smashing success based on other similar STAR Bonds up in the KC area that are so successful that they don't even include them in the analysis of whether STAR Bond initiatives are successful (weird!). There are probably other intangible benefits too.

I guess from where I sit 1) is bad and 2) is really good best case or neutral in the worst case from Wichita's perspective.

[Veritas]

As long as the Chiefs/Royals don’t cost Wichita a dime, then I suppose it’s ok.
Making it the Kansas Chiefs / Royals is even better and I’ll donate a dime.

[SubGod22]

Governor Parson claims his state will have a public offer by the end of the year. Though from what I read, I believe they're currently out of session and won't have a special session to address this before he leaves office in January.

Whatever happens will have to be done in the next 12-18 months I would think to allow time for proper locations, designs, and construction to be completed in time. Current leases end in 2031. Sherman has stated the Royals will not play in their current location beyond 2030.

We knew they'd make an effort. I believe this is the first public statement about it, but there are zero details in what they may try to offer to compete with Kansas.

[ShockerDropOut]

I know Missouri wants to keep both teams, I only wonder if there is the will in Columbia to have the entire state fund a project to save two teams in KC. As much as Kansas can be pretty divided between the NE and the rest of the state, MO is worse when it comes to KC vs STL. It will be interesting to watch it all go down.

[pogo]

I don't know what the level of support was for in StL not being able to retain the Rams if any resolutions to save the Rams was not supported by the KC area perhaps there could be some pushback by StL to not support any initiative to save the Chiefs and or Royals. Should be fun to watch.