KSHSAA Multiplier

[Kel Varnsen]

Another hill I will die on when it comes to high school sports: we need a shot clock. It could be 35, 45 seconds. But we need one.

The stall game is an affront to basketball and robs players of the opportunity to truly play the game. I want to prevent that farce as much as possible.

[RoyalShock]

Another hill I will die on when it comes to high school sports: we need a shot clock. It could be 35, 45 seconds. But we need one.

The stall game is an affront to basketball and robs players of the opportunity to truly play the game. I want to prevent that farce as much as possible.

From watching quite a few 1A games the past several years, I didn't notice the lack of a shot clock. The games weren't necessarily high scoring, but it was nice to see a team be patient and faithfully run their offense until something opened up. They generally didn't take 45+ seconds in a possession, but I think with the clock the last 10 seconds would have created pressure, taken them out of their offense and forced a poor shot.

That said, I can appreciate your perspective and I wouldn't be totally opposed to a 40 or 45-second shot clock.

[Kel Varnsen]

From watching quite a few 1A games the past several years, I didn't notice the lack of a shot clock. The games weren't necessarily high scoring, but it was nice to see a team be patient and faithfully run their offense until something opened up. They generally didn't take 45+ seconds in a possession, but I think with the clock the last 10 seconds would have created pressure, taken them out of their offense and forced a poor shot.

That said, I can appreciate your perspective and I wouldn't be totally opposed to a 40 or 45-second shot clock.

I get that. I watched a 6A Girls state title game between Maize and Wichita South in 2015 where South got a lead early and literally took the air out of the ball. Hell, even our resident moron Bob Lutz was advocating for a shot clock after watching the game.

I'm fine with being patient, but this was at another level, and was not intended to actually play basketball. It taught the girls nothing, except that they could run out the clock and be champions.

[SubGod22]

I've long supported a shot clock of 40-60 seconds for HS, but as we were always told at rules meetings, it's an expense thing and KSHSAA felt it was an unnecessary expense to impose upon more financially strapped schools. I'm not sure what it would cost to hook up such a system in each gymnasium, but that was always the excuse. It seemed that KSHSAA leadership supported the implementation of a shot clock otherwise.

Though I don't understand why KSHSAA couldn't say something like we are going to implement a shot clock in 4 years or something like that and give schools time to fund it if that truly is the issue.

To Kel's point, when I was in HS I was watching a game at the T-Bird Classic at Circle between Ark City and El Dorado. Ark City's best player, CJ Jenkins? (can't remember his last name) got in foul trouble at the end of the 3rd quarter. AC dribbled out the remaining minute or so of the quarter and then got to start the 4th quarter with the ball and continued to dribble until there were two or three minutes left. They then called timeout and put CJ back in. One could argue that El Dorado could have come out of their zone and forced AC to do something, but they were comfortable I guess with their small lead at the time. I can't remember who won the game, but I'll never forget the time wasting to get him back in the game.

Also, I was at Augusta once working a sub-varsity contest when my brother was in the other gym working the varsity games. When I was done, I went over to watch and I don't remember who they were playing that night, but the boys game went to double overtime. Augusta won the tip and then proceeded to hold the ball at play for the final shot of the first OT. The other team let them. Augusta missed and we went to double OT. The other team scored quickly and that forced Augusta to play, but it was another example of people abusing the no shot clock system.

[Kung Wu]

I'm in favor of a 30 minute shot clock in soccer.

[rrshock]

Is this still on the table? I couldn't help but notice the number of state titles won by private schools this spring.

[pinstripers]

Is this still on the table? I couldn't help but notice the number of state titles won by private schools this spring.

All the privates should be lumped together to compete for their own title.

[Kel Varnsen]

Is this still on the table? I couldn't help but notice the number of state titles won by private schools this spring.

There have been a few, but there is a big difference between the Mieges of the world and the other private schools who might have a good class or two of athletes.

[pinstripers]

There have been a few, but there is a big difference between the Mieges of the world and the other private schools who might have a good class or two of athletes.

Zero ****ing difference, zero.

[ShockerFever]

Zero ****ing difference, zero.

Calm the **** down

[SubGod22]

Should Andale be bumped up? They're a public but they're dominating near everything. I think the school has five or six state titles this year. They had a few last year. And pretty much have a couple every year it seems.

I do love how two or three privates that do really well convince some people that all privates are dominating. Most privates struggle to compete as much as the next school. But if they end up with one or two years in a row of good athletes, which is pretty much how a lot of the non dominate publics end up having success, some will be outraged that they have to compete against them.

This obviously still irritates me and I've never attended a private school in my life.

[Kel Varnsen]

Should Andale be bumped up? They're a public but they're dominating near everything. I think the school has five or six state titles this year. They had a few last year. And pretty much have a couple every year it seems.

I do love how two or three privates that do really well convince some people that all privates are dominating. Most privates struggle to compete as much as the next school. But if they end up with one or two years in a row of good athletes, which is pretty much how a lot of the non dominate publics end up having success, some will be outraged that they have to compete against them.

This obviously still irritates me and I've never attended a private school in my life.

Yeah, to put this on all private schools is also not fair. Andale is dominating...largely because they have such a strong athletic culture in that community. Unless they're pulling kids from Garden Plain (technically in the same USD), I'm not aware of Andale doing a ton of recruiting. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong though. I still think consistent success like that merits having someone bumped up.

I'm fine with a post-season success multiplier for all schools. Essentially, if you have a four-year (or more) run of dominance in a particular sport, then you need to be bumped up a class. But if you have one class that's driven success for three years or so, you shouldn't. This removes the penalty for simply being a private school.

The private school multiplier put forth by KSHSAA was a joke, even thought it didn't pass. I know someone on the committee who was none too pleased with what they recommended. Heck, it included Scholars' Bowl as a state championship criteria.

All the privates should be lumped together to compete for their own title.

We should totally do this if we want Miege to continue winning state titles.

All the privates should be lumped together to compete for their own title.

Can't wait to see Bishop Seabury's girls basketball team (who won zero games last season) put up zero points against Bishop Miege. Competition!

[Ted Lasso's Neighbor]

I updated the number of wins at the https://shockernet.net/forum/miscell...14#post1383814 post to include spring activities. Here are the final tally's:

Public School wins - 103
Private School wins - 33

If you exclude the 6A only championships (27) due to there not being any private schools in 6A:

Public School wins - 76
Private School wins - 33

Of the private schools, Bishop Miege had 5 wins, St Thomas Aquinas, St. James Academy, and Collegiate each had 4, and Bishop Carroll had 2.

[Ted Lasso's Neighbor]

When you look at the championship history of activities (https://www.kshsaachamps.org/StateChampions/), there are definitely some dominant schools, both public and private. Shawnee Mission East and Blue Valley schools dominate a lot of 6A activities, Andale has dominated their class for football and track and field, and private schools like Miege, St. Thomas Aquinas, and Collegiate dominate certain sports. Below is some information about athletic activities. I looked at the non-athletic ones as well, but it seemed like the schools that had a lot of athletic success tended to also have a lot of non-athletic success.


Baseball - Overland Park-Blue Valley schools have dominated 6A, winning 5 of the last 6 years. Other classes have more parity, although McPherson (4A) and Collegiate (3A) have won their classes the last couple years.

Basketball - in girls 5A, St. Thomas Aquinas has won the last 7 years, while in 4A Bishop Miege has won 8 of the last 9 years. Claflin-Central Plains has won 8 of the last 9 years in 2A and 1A. In boys, Bishop Miege has won 5 in the last 7 years. Overland Park-Blue Valley schools have won 5 of the last 6 in 6A, and Hesston has won the last 3 years in 3A.

Football - Shawnee-Mill Valley has won 5A the last 4 years, Bishop Miege has won 4A 7 of the last 9 years, and Andale has won 3A the last 4 years.

Golf - in girls, Kapaun and St Thomas Aquinas have dominated 5A with one of them winning it the last 16 years (Kapaun the last 3 years). In boys, Shawnee Mission and Blue Valley schools dominate 6A. Private schools (Kapaun, St Thomas, Bishop Carroll) dominate 5A. Salina-Sacred Heart has won 2A the last 8 years.

Soccer - there are only 3 championships (6A, 5A, 1-4A), but the NE schools have dominated. In girls, Shawnee-Mill Valley won 6A this year, but Overland Park-Blue Valley West won it 5 years in a row prior. In 5A, St Thomas Aquinas has won it the last 3 years, and in 1-4A - Bishop Miege has won it the last 7 years. The Bishop Miege boys team has won 4A the last 7 years in a row.

Softball - Bishop Carroll has dominated 5A off and on, but Valley Center has won 5A the last two year. Not much dominance otherwise.

Swin and Dive - there are only 2 championships - 6A and 1-5A. In girls, Lawrence schools, Blue Valley, and Shanee Mission East have dominated 6A. In boys, Shawnee Mission East or a Overland Park-Blue Valley school has won 6A the last 14 years. An Andover school has won the 1-5A over the last 3 years.

Tennis - in girls, Shawnee Mission East has won 6A the last 4 years and Collegiate has dominated the 1-3A results. In boys, Shawnee Mission East and Blue Valley schools have dominated 6A, while Collegiate has dominated 1-3A.

Track and Field - in girls, Olathe and Lawrence teams have dominated 6A, Andale has won 4A the last 6 years, and Garden Plain has won 2A the last 4 years. In boys, Andale has won 4A 7 of the last 10 years.

Volleyball - most of the dominance has been by private schools in 5A (St. Thomas Aquinas and St. James Academy) and 4A (Bishop Miege).

Wrestling - Maize won 5A this year, but Goddard had won it the previous 8 years. Hoxie has won 1-3A the last 3 years, and Andale has won 4A 2 of the last 3 years. A private school hasn't won state since St. James Academy won 5A in 2014.

[Kel Varnsen]

Any word from pinstripers?