Riverwalk proposal

[wichshock65]

I figured it out. It dawned on me that "Penumbra" is probably a secret spy style anagram, that when decoded could shed some light on this foreign entity's real intentions for Wichita. So after a little massaging of the name "Penumbra", I was able to solve the case:

PENUMBRA --> RAPE NUMB

They wanted to shove it up Wichita's pooper so badly we didn't even care we were hemorrhaging cash.

Definitely has a Wild West World vibe to it. Something's fishy!

[pogo]

I actually thought it was a shell company laundering money for a Russian oligarch

[SHOCKvalue]

Honestly, I’m surprised this most recent private plan even got past the sniff test to the point that the media picked up on it. My BS detector was fairly pegged from the get-go.

This is a strange town when it come to downtown development. Lots of self-inflicted foot shooting, and lots of stuff that is very head-scratching from a cost perspective as contrasted with the final product.

At this point in time I really doubt downtown Wichita ever gets it sheet together. Tons of critical mass from a residential perspective these days, but pretty much a dead core from a commercial perspective. That dog don’t hunt. And all the development that has happened is so discombobulated and disjointed with respect to connecting it all together.

We’re a downtown development case study for all the wrong reasons. Sucks, but not much you can do on an individual level.

[pogo]

It certainly seems that way most of the time.

[SubGod22]

Wichita doesn't have a patience to build downtown right. OKC took 20-30 years to become what it is now. They have quite the area that at the beginning of that time, you didn't want to be in after dark. Now it's a vibrant area that is a very attractive place to hang out. Wichita can do something along the river that would benefit the city and region, but if it can't be done within 5 years nobody wants it to happen.

I've been cautious on the Pemumbra plan, but there are investments that can be made that would add to downtown Wichita and build off of each other to make it a more attractive place. But it has to be a long-term plan that people will stick with. Everything that's been tried dies because people just give up and quit if it doesn't happen all at once.

I'm not a fan of CII or trying to salvage it unless someone actually has a viable plan for it to actually offer something other than just a hideous blue roof. It's good real estate that can be better developed. And we definitely need a new performing arts center. I have been a big fan of an aquarium down by the river, but with the zoo plans to add one in the not too distant future, I'm not sure what to think. Not a huge fan of adding an air and space museum, but that's mostly because of what we have up the road in Hutch. But with that said, having something down there to potentially draw people in would be a good thing. What else that could be, I have no idea. I'm not that creative. Having activities/attractions along with more shopping/dining options could do wonders for downtown and the city. Will we ever get there? I doubt it. I'm curious to see what development we see around the baseball stadium over the next 5+ years.

I'm rambling.

[SHOCKvalue]

Wichita doesn't have a patience to build downtown right. OKC took 20-30 years to become what it is now. They have quite the area that at the beginning of that time, you didn't want to be in after dark. Now it's a vibrant area that is a very attractive place to hang out. Wichita can do something along the river that would benefit the city and region, but if it can't be done within 5 years nobody wants it to happen.

We're nearing 20 years from the point that Waterwalk started. Same basic thing can be said for voting on IBA. About 15 years since we broke ground on IBA. Just saying... it ain't a compressed timeline problem.

You wanna see abject downtown development failure just go to a game at the new ballpark. Sounds ironic, but you park in the Waterwalk wasteland to go to a game at the new $50M facility that somehow cost us $80M. The whole experience is like a real life meme.

[SubGod22]

We're nearing 20 years from the point that Waterwalk started. Same basic thing can be said for voting on IBA. About 15 years since we broke ground on IBA. Just saying... it ain't a compressed timeline problem.

You wanna see abject downtown development failure just go to a game at the new ballpark. Sounds ironic, but you park in the Waterwalk wasteland to go to a game at the new $50M facility that somehow cost us $80M. The whole experience is like a real life meme.

20 years since Waterwalk started, and about 18 years since it was basically abandoned. The point was that Wichita struggles to stick it out and work to improve downtown. They get grand ideas, do one thing and then nothing. There's no real vision/planning/forethought in the city. I know it doesn't help that half of the population rejects anything and everything. Though those same people also ***** about the lack of options in Wichita.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

I still bristle when I think of Carlos Mayans negotiating Bass Pro Shops right out of the Waterwalk and we got frickin' Gander Mountain, the WalMart of outdoor stores, in its place instead. WaterWalk was flawed from the beginning, but it stood a good chance of some success with Bass Pro. Without it, we got, well, what we got. Someone mentioned shooting ourselves in the foot--a depressingly spot on assessment of Wichita's downtown development efforts.

In one corner you have the good old boys who build projects for 1.5 times what they should actually cost, souring the attitude of everyone who cares. In the other corner, you have a large contingent of the population who mitch and boan that three cents of public money is used for anything other than road repairs and the police department. They have established the local mindset that it's somehow acceptable to drive 3 hours to KC for any cultural or recreational opportunities. Square in the middle are local political, civic, and business "leadership" who have no backbone, no vision, no perspective, and no foresight. Trying to get things done in Wichita is like wading through molasses. The result: a stagnant population, a stagnant economy, few opportunities for young professionals, and a poor reputation.

It's possible to fix what's wrong, but not with a Ferris wheel and the "world's best" rooftop restaurant. The roots of the problem are deep and they are strong.

[SHOCKvalue]

I still bristle when I think of Carlos Mayans negotiating Bass Pro Shops right out of the Waterwalk and we got frickin' Gander Mountain, the WalMart of outdoor stores, in its place instead. WaterWalk was flawed from the beginning, but it stood a good chance of some success with Bass Pro. Without it, we got, well, what we got. Someone mentioned shooting ourselves in the foot--a depressingly spot on assessment of Wichita's downtown development efforts.

In one corner you have the good old boys who build projects for 1.5 times what they should actually cost, souring the attitude of everyone who cares. In the other corner, you have a large contingent of the population who mitch and boan that three cents of public money is used for anything other than road repairs and the police department. They have established the local mindset that it's somehow acceptable to drive 3 hours to KC for any cultural or recreational opportunities. Square in the middle are local political, civic, and business "leadership" who have no backbone, no vision, no perspective, and no foresight. Trying to get things done in Wichita is like wading through molasses. The result: a stagnant population, a stagnant economy, few opportunities for young professionals, and a poor reputation.

It's possible to fix what's wrong, but not with a Ferris wheel and the "world's best" rooftop restaurant. The roots of the problem are deep and they are strong.

Waterwalk with BPS plus the arena located immediately across Main Street from Waterwalk (one of the arena locations considered) would have made it near-impossible for that area not to explode.

Instead, Mayans went full nincompoop on BPS (as you said), and the arena braintrust folks thought it better located hundreds of yards plus a railroad bed from most of Old Town, and abutting an arts district that could care less about their proximity to the IBA squashed mushroom.

Today the CAVE-rs are at least partially-represented by younger progressives. Really, not poking at you. The proposed Top Golf is getting sheet on pretty hard right now by such at the Wichita Eagle. Just like they sheet-ed on BPS and Waterwalk 15-20 years ago. Honestly, I can't recall a public-private or STAR bond development in Wichita that doesn't get totally, 100% sheet on by the Wichita Eagle. The disease here knows no political affiliation. And looking at the cost versus end product on some of those projects, I understand their position more than I used to.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

Waterwalk with BPS plus the arena located immediately across Main Street from Waterwalk (one of the arena locations considered) would have made it near-impossible for that area not to explode.

Instead, Mayans went full nincompoop on BPS (as you said), and the arena braintrust folks thought it better located hundreds of yards plus a railroad bed from most of Old Town, and abutting an arts district that could care less about their proximity to the IBA squashed mushroom.

Today the CAVE-rs are at least partially-represented by younger progressives. Really, not poking at you. The proposed Top Golf is getting sheet on pretty hard right now by such at the Wichita Eagle. Just like they sheet-ed on BPS and Waterwalk 15-20 years ago. Honestly, I can't recall a public-private or STAR bond development in Wichita that doesn't get totally, 100% sheet on by the Wichita Eagle. The disease here knows no political affiliation. And looking at the cost versus end product on some of those projects, I understand their position more than I used to.

No poke at all--I get it and I can't argue with you. When I lived there, the CAVErs were primarily senile old grumpy men. If that's changed that's unfortunate.

I do understand their perspective more than I used to--the $50 million ballpark that cost $80 million is a major reason why. I guess what always frustrated me was the total lack of gray area or middle ground. The debate was always binary--either 100% for or 100% against. There's not a whole lot of careful and thoughtful public input--it's mostly just a lot of yelling, name calling, and people saying the Earth will spin off its axis and hurl itself into the sun if a project is/isn't built. And that's a criticism of both sides.

[ShockerPrez]

I used to not understand why people would be against sales tax increases for things that seemed to make sense for the community. Then you realize how the scheme works.

1. Politicians will usually payoff donors with the contracts that will pay much more than market price.

2. Investors who should be taking the risk, as they are going to be making the profit, basically get a risk free investment at the hands of the taxpayers.

3. Private businesses get to use eminent domain to suck up real estate they couldn't normally get. Average citizens get the raw deal.

It just is the same old same old. Corporations sucking off government teat and public money going into the hands of people who can afford to foot the bill. Government will find a way to piss away money and risk free investments by corporations don't succeed because their is no incentive to get it right.

[Veritas]

Not Riverwalk, but nice to see the west side of the river getting some additional development

https://www.kansas.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/carrie-rengers/article256656742.html

[Ta Town Shocker]

In Omaha this weekend and had a little time to kill so came down to the riverfront park. This type of development is exactly what Wichita needs. Truly awesome place to bring the kids and hang out for a while.

[NCAABound]

Yeah omaha has left Ict in the dust.

[MoValley John]

In Omaha this weekend and had a little time to kill so came down to the riverfront park. This type of development is exactly what Wichita needs. Truly awesome place to bring the kids and hang out for a while.

Only half of the project is complete. The Riverfront portion isn't open yet, nor is the science museum and portions of the Council Bluffs side. The completed portion was about $400 mil. The entire project is north of a billion. Omaha really did the Gene Leahy Mall project right.