Penn State

[Kung Wu]

My observations, albeit from some distance, is that football programs have a culture of their own. A "son, let's keep this in the family. We'll take care of it" type of culture. One where everyone knows their place and what will happen if they dare go outside the family. It's difficult to know how that pressure will cause someone to act when in a traumatic situation.

From high school on up, it has looked to me as if football players and coaches have a different moral compass than many of us. They are arrogant. They see others as lesser people on the social ladder and treat them accordingly. They seem to think the rules don't apply to them. Social norms are for everyone else. I observed this in high school and college. My oldest son observed this in high school. All the stuff we hear about relatively high numbers of football players (college and pro) getting into trouble. Rampant rules violations within college programs. High school recruits getting sexual favors that were practically arranged by assistant coaches.

I want to emphasize that not all football players are like this. But many, if not most, seem to be. And granted, this stuff happens in others sports, but from my vantage point, more so in football.

For all the problems that have become public, how many are still being hidden, covered-up and ignored? For every issue exposed are there two that aren't? Five? Ten?

Is this the logical result of the emphasis our society has put on sports? That we put up statues, name stadiums, and pay millions upon millions of dollars to players and coaches of a game - A GAME! All for the sake of our amusement.

I am guilty of putting emphasis on sports. I love my Shockers and my Royals. I facilitate my son's participation in sports (but I don't push him like some parents do). So perhaps I am part of the problem.

And while this may be at best selective and at worst hypocritical, count me as one who does not want to see football return to WSU. I have been squarely on the fence for some time, but this Penn State ordeal has given me enough perspective that I don't want that element to be prevalent on our campus. I don't want Wichita State to be the next Miami or Penn State.

An interesting perspective. And interesting conclusion. Food for thought, thanks for sharing!

[pogo]

A few days ago bruce and bob had a person on the radio that played hockey at psu and he pretty much validated what Royal talked about. He said that no one associated with the football players and that they pretty much moved in their own circles. He said he knew of several instances where things were just swept under the rug and nothing was ever said or reported. One instance was when a tight end threw some guy through a window at a "frat" party and he just quietly transferred. No charges no nothing. These are some legitimate concerns about big time football but then you have a program like ksu (oh please god don't let bill snyder screw up) and you can hope that winning doesn't become the only thing.

[Kung Wu]

A few days ago bruce and bob had a person on the radio that played hockey at psu and he pretty much validated what Royal talked about. He said that no one associated with the football players and that they pretty much moved in their own circles. He said he knew of several instances where things were just swept under the rug and nothing was ever said or reported. One instance was when a tight end threw some guy through a window at a "frat" party and he just quietly transferred. No charges no nothing. These are some legitimate concerns about big time football but then you have a program like ksu (oh please god don't let bill snyder screw up) and you can hope that winning doesn't become the only thing.

Sheds light on why KU football players fight basketball players from their own school.

I never noticed any us-vs-them with the basketball or any other sports back in college so it may be unique to football?

If true, then the bond between McQueary and Paterno may be very tight indeed.

[Kung Wu]

Afterthought: If McQueary did go the police after all, and Sandusky retired in 1999 -- then what more could/should Paterno have done? He was no longer Sandusky's boss at the time, probably wasn't affiliated with him (who would want to be), and as far as he was concerned the police were notified.

That's a big IF McQueary went to the police after all.

[ShockBand]

Sandusky still had an office at the PSU football complex and I believe brought many of those kids there, even though he was no longer a coach. Once the first allegations came forth in the late 90s, they should have properly investigated and then barred him from campus completely.

[RoyalShock]

Afterthought: If McQueary did go the police after all, and Sandusky retired in 1999 -- then what more could/should Paterno have done? He was no longer Sandusky's boss at the time, probably wasn't affiliated with him (who would want to be), and as far as he was concerned the police were notified.

That's a big IF McQueary went to the police after all.

If McQueary went to the police, why wasn't Sandusky arrested? There is rarely a third-party witness to things like that. It should have been a slam-dunk conviction . . . unless someone else got it buried.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

Afterthought: If McQueary did go the police after all, and Sandusky retired in 1999 -- then what more could/should Paterno have done? He was no longer Sandusky's boss at the time, probably wasn't affiliated with him (who would want to be), and as far as he was concerned the police were notified.

That's a big IF McQueary went to the police after all.

I would assume they were friends considering there relationship previous however see below......

Sandusky still had an office at the PSU football complex and I believe brought many of those kids there, even though he was no longer a coach. Once the first allegations came forth in the late 90s, they should have properly investigated and then barred him from campus completely.

As if the molestation wasnt enough Sandusky was still allowed to use campus facilities. Some of the crimes happened after he "retired" This is why so many people are outraged with Paterno and the University.

[Kung Wu]

I would assume they were friends considering there relationship previous however see below......



As if the molestation wasnt enough Sandusky was still allowed to use campus facilities. Some of the crimes happened after he "retired" This is why so many people are outraged with Paterno and the University.

Sandusky had emeritus status. Emeritus status is no joke and rescinding that status is way above Paterno's pay grade. That's university provost territory (depending on their governance). Paterno would have had no right or authority to deny access to facilities, office space, campus access, etc. None. He definitely wouldn't be in contact with him either -- it has been reported that they didn't like each other and Paterno fired him in 1999 (Edit: forced early retirement is the proper term).

Matter of fact he fired Sandusky even though there were no charges filed in 1998. None. It was investigated and no charges brought by the police. Still Paterno fired him. Double edit: Forced early retirement -- wouldn't want to fire a guy that didn't have charges brought up.

Theory: Did the AD arbitrate to give Sandusky emeritus status to prevent a wrongful termination lawsuit and contract buyout given that no charges were filed?

Sandusky and Paterno didn't like each other, Paterno had no authority what-so-ever over Sandusky and no authority to rescind emeritus status and/or rights.

IF (the very, very big if) McQueary went to the police or Paterno was told the police were notified (or going to be), then Paterno may be vindicated. If the authorities were notified what else could Paterno have done short of going all Awesome Sauce Malone on Sandusky on a dark night?

[Kung Wu]

If McQueary went to the police, why wasn't Sandusky arrested? There is rarely a third-party witness to things like that. It should have been a slam-dunk conviction . . . unless someone else got it buried.

I don't know. I don't know if the police were notified, that's just what is being reported in the rumor mill. If so that changes a lot as far as McQueary and Paterno are concerned. The president still ends up looking like a douchebag though.

If the rumors are wrong, it's back to looking like a lot of bad decisions were made by McQueary on up.

[pinstripers]

http://www.thesuperficial.com/joe-paterno-sold-house-wife-one-dollar-sandusky-scandal-11-2011

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

@Kung Wu: is holding it down. :)

The one thing I have said about Paterno (not so much in this thread but talking with folks) is I'm cool with Paterno going to the next line of authority with any information (be it University President etc) Could he have done more? Perhaps, and it largely depends on what he knew. The way things look right now is he knew quite a bit and relayed that information. But did nothing afterwards after he seen nothing was done.

[shock]

As per Grand Jury Indictment, a detective started to look into it, but the campus police ran him off.

[ShockTalk]

@Kung Wu is holding it down. :)

The one thing I have said about Paterno (not so much in this thread but talking with folks) is I'm cool with Paterno going to the next line of authority with any information (be it University President etc) Could he have done more? Perhaps, and it largely depends on what he knew. The way things look right now is he knew quite a bit and relayed that information. But did nothing afterwards after he seen nothing was done.

In most instances, that line of authority is also the line of power or at least reasonably so. Make no doubt about it, Paterno IS/WAS Penn St. Didn't he throw the university President out of his house several years back when he tried to get him to retire? He had to know the seriousness of the allegations McQueary was telling him (even if they were no more than Sandusky, himself, admitted to), the impact on that boy, and the effect it could have on Penn St and his legacy if it wasn't properly dealt with. Yet he didn't even talk to his former assistant coach Sandusky and chose to pawn it off on others to do the right thing fully knowing his word held more weight than any of theirs. To add insult to injury, he did nothing later after seeing nothing was done as you said. Great position comes with great responsibility, particularly in critical times. As someone else has said, "Say it ain't so, Joe".

[pinstripers]

Yeah, don't think this was a normal "chain of command". It was not.

[SubGod22]

Authorities Probe 2 New Abuse Allegations Against Sandusky That Involve Current Children